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81 yr old, arrested and frogmarched through JFK. We're all safer now

81 yr old, arrested and frogmarched through JFK. We're all safer now

Old Oct 27, 2007, 12:28 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by Corpt
Passenger didn't protest, he said "sorry, just take it"...... Doesn't sound like a protest to me It's the TSA who escalated the situation, not the passenger. A little sensible use of discretion by the TSA probably would have been appropriate.
Agree. If this is protest, it is most decidely "Gandhian"

That being said, I don't want to go about making judgments based on a Daily Kos exclusive either
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 1:53 pm
  #17  
 
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"You bumptious moron. This depraved and indecent society for which you've appointed yourself decency guardian spends billions of dollars on the videogame industry, cultivating an obsessions with violence. Yet when you're in possession of a brass knuckle, well, that goes against everything we stand for. I move to dismiss, I move for cause, and I move that your honor sentence this idiot (point to prosecutor) to sensitivity training, preferrably for life." (modified Boston Legal quote)

Last edited by stupidhead; Oct 28, 2007 at 10:29 am
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 3:53 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Corpt
Passenger didn't protest, he said "sorry, just take it"...... Doesn't sound like a protest to me It's the TSA who escalated the situation, not the passenger. A little sensible use of discretion by the TSA probably would have been appropriate.
Fair enough. I guess I was so proud of the TSOs for actually finding the banned material that I missed that bit in the OP.

I'd like to think that all the guys said was "OK, just take it," without saying "what?? that's just a paperweight" first or anything of the sort. I'd also like to know what he was booked for, assuming the officers actually informed him of such.
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 3:58 pm
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Brass Knuckles NO

Wearing 5 Graduation Rings on your Right Hand OK

Both would have the same effect if used agressively
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 4:21 pm
  #20  
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Originally Posted by polonius
You missed the more relevant parts of the Wikipedia entry: 1) "In most countries, the possession, let alone use, of brass knuckles is not illegal" (my bolding, don't know about New York) and 2) "Brass knuckles can normally be purchased at flea markets, swap meets, and some sword and weapon shops" so it doesn't sound to me like there was anything inappropriate about the passenger's behaviour, as some on the board have suggested. It's oppression pure and simple.
They are classified as a deadly weapon in New York state...I also know this holds true for other states as well..
Cheers
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 6:29 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by sbm12
To make sure I have the facts straight:
  • Passenger takes prohibited item through security checkpoint
  • TSA actually finds it (great work, fellas)
  • TSA informs passenger that item is prohibited
  • Passenger protests and LEOs are called
  • Passenger continues protest and LEOs arrest passenger

Which part of this is an affront to the father? He made a mistake in packing it in his carry-on, and furthered the mistake by protesting to the TSA and LEOs. I have no sympathy for him in this situation.
Believe it or not, there are places in this world where the whole thing would've been dropped as soon as the passenger said "take it." The US has become decidedly hardassed recently.
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 6:53 pm
  #22  
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Remember 2001?
“You cannot professionalize unless you federalize.” That was the argument advanced by Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle.
I assume the folks at DailyKos who were big Daschle supporters remember and agree with this line. Continuing to read:

Originally Posted by Congressman Patrick Tiberi, 2001
It’s a nice slogan, but that’s all it is. Last year, watchdogs at the General Accounting Office tested the screening process at several federal agencies and airports. The GAO issued a sobering report detailing how it was able to breach security at our top agencies, including the FBI and CIA. If you haven’t already guessed, security at those agencies is handled by federal employees.

http://tiberi.house.gov/News/Documen...cumentID=32398
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 7:53 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by stockmanjr
They are classified as a deadly weapon in New York state...I also know this holds true for other states as well..
Cheers
Howie
DHS classifies bottles of water as a "credible threat". So much for government classification.

Originally Posted by UncleDude
Brass Knuckles NO

Wearing 5 Graduation Rings on your Right Hand OK

Both would have the same effect if used agressively

Ran into a cloth bag full of coins. It would make for a strong sap that can inflict more damage than any set of brass knuckles. Will the TSA now get people arrested for carrying legal tender in the form of coins?
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Old Oct 28, 2007, 2:49 am
  #24  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
DHS classifies bottles of water as a "credible threat". So much for government classification.




Ran into a cloth bag full of coins. It would make for a strong sap that can inflict more damage than any set of brass knuckles. Will the TSA now get people arrested for carrying legal tender in the form of coins?
So you defend the right for persons to posses brass knuckles? I hope you also then believe in the right for persons to bear arms.
Cheers
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Old Oct 28, 2007, 6:24 am
  #25  
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Originally Posted by stockmanjr
So you defend the right for persons to posses brass knuckles? I hope you also then believe in the right for persons to bear arms.
Cheers
Howie
This is about brass knuckles not about guns, but whatever. (I do believe in the 2nd Amendment.)

The ridiculousness of this situation that I hope you don't defend (but that I expect otherwise) is that an old man is hassled because a paperweight comes in the form of brass knuckles but a much stronger person with a far more damaging sort of (coin-filled) sap will get through without an issue other than having perhaps to show that it's filled with coins.
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Old Oct 28, 2007, 7:42 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
This is about brass knuckles not about guns, but whatever. (I do believe in the 2nd Amendment.)

The ridiculousness of this situation that I hope you don't defend (but that I expect otherwise) is that an old man is hassled because a paperweight comes in the form of brass knuckles but a much stronger person with a far more damaging sort of (coin-filled) sap will get through without an issue other than having perhaps to show that it's filled with coins.
Just trying to understand your position (my questions aren't rhetorical): Are you saying he should have gotten a pass because he was old and/or weak? Or are you saying anyone (with no regard to age or physical condition) with brass knuckles should not be hassled?

What about with these things?:
cane swords
belt buckle knives
stun guns
mace
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Old Oct 28, 2007, 7:48 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
This is about brass knuckles not about guns, but whatever. (I do believe in the 2nd Amendment.)

The ridiculousness of this situation that I hope you don't defend (but that I expect otherwise) is that an old man is hassled because a paperweight comes in the form of brass knuckles but a much stronger person with a far more damaging sort of (coin-filled) sap will get through without an issue other than having perhaps to show that it's filled with coins.
Understand your point about the ridiculousness of the situation but it has been pointed out repeatedly that anything (including your fists) can be used as a weapon by a suitably trained person. So, the question of physical fitness (or training) is moot. The only facts that are available are that brass knuckles are indeed illegal and that it appears (and I'm taking the TSA posters here at face value ) that the TSA had no option but to call the LEO.

Now, I don't know how much lattitude the LEO has to influence the outcome. So, while the overall situation is definitely ridiculous and unfortunate, arguing that LEO behavior should have considered his age/physical condition seems to go against your very principled (and much admired) stance against profiling.

Finally, I think if the same force is being delivered, I'm sure the damage from brass knuckles will be far greater than a bag of coins because the force is distributed in a much smaller area resulting in extensive tissue, bone and muscle damage.
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Old Oct 28, 2007, 10:09 am
  #28  
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Originally Posted by muddy
Just trying to understand your position (my questions aren't rhetorical): Are you saying he should have gotten a pass because he was old and/or weak? Or are you saying anyone (with no regard to age or physical condition) with brass knuckles should not be hassled?

What about with these things?:
cane swords
belt buckle knives
stun guns
mace
No and no and not relevant. They could just confiscate the items like they do with other contraband instead of acting like law enforcement fly paper.

My position is not based on his age or physical condition. I would say the same thing like I did about a coin-filled sap in the hands of a person taken as likely to be physically stronger.
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Old Oct 28, 2007, 10:11 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by bnarayan1511
Finally, I think if the same force is being delivered, I'm sure the damage from brass knuckles will be far greater than a bag of coins because the force is distributed in a much smaller area resulting in extensive tissue, bone and muscle damage.
A sock "full" of coins can be used to hit with more pressure per square inch in a strike than a boxer's punch using brass knuckles.
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Old Oct 28, 2007, 10:15 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
A sock "full" of coins can be used to exert more pressure per square inch in a strike than a boxer's punch using brass knuckles.

Not an expert here, but I did say, "if the same force is being delivered"

And, recalling in a mystical haze that Pressure = Force/Area and looking at the area profile of a sock filled with coins and the area profile of the brass knuckles, I stick to my original assertion

Again, I'm no expert and if you have first hand knowledge of this, I'll defer
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