Non-crew employees cutting security line

Old Oct 30, 07, 1:37 am
  #61  
 
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I find it interesting that most of the debate here is about vendors. However, I haven't seen many comments about airport-based airline employees (CSRs and ramp employees). Many of these employees are required to pass through security many times just to do their jobs. I know at ORD, there is an employee-only line during parts of the day. However, after it closes, employees must use the regular line to reach the sterile area. I can clearly see why the airline would want those employees to go to the front of the line, as they aren't useful to the airline if they are standing in security. Also, at ORD, if there are no employees in the employee line, they will use that line for passengers, and then let employees cut there. If an employee isn't getting paid before their shift to stand in line, I can't really see how they can be expected to wait in line to pass through security. Similarly, if an employee is being paid, it's not logical to pay him to stand in a security line. In the end, forcing employees to wait in the security line would only hit the airline bottom line, and that in turn raises ticket prices.
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Old Oct 30, 07, 4:18 am
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Originally Posted by LGA_UAL View Post
I find it interesting that most of the debate here is about vendors. However, I haven't seen many comments about airport-based airline employees (CSRs and ramp employees). Many of these employees are required to pass through security many times just to do their jobs. I know at ORD, there is an employee-only line during parts of the day. However, after it closes, employees must use the regular line to reach the sterile area. I can clearly see why the airline would want those employees to go to the front of the line, as they aren't useful to the airline if they are standing in security. Also, at ORD, if there are no employees in the employee line, they will use that line for passengers, and then let employees cut there. If an employee isn't getting paid before their shift to stand in line, I can't really see how they can be expected to wait in line to pass through security. Similarly, if an employee is being paid, it's not logical to pay him to stand in a security line. In the end, forcing employees to wait in the security line would only hit the airline bottom line, and that in turn raises ticket prices.
At ORD - how about the "private" screening area between the G and H/K concourse in T3? I'm not sure many people (public) even know it exists. If you're walking from concourse H/K to concourse G and look to the right, you'll see an area that looks like an opening to an office or back room - if you look inside further you'll notice it is an employee checkpoint with WTMD and x-ray machine. I don't believe pax even have access to this area.

I'm sure there are a number of screening checkpoints at ORD for employees.

As far as those who work in airports -- my view may be different from others, but those employees are there to provide us with goods and services. I believe it's likely a hassle to work in an airport as a vendor, but vendors tend to go through fast and they're not the cause of long lines.

Airline employees - again, I feel they should be able to jump line. They're working to get flights out and take care of their customers - the passengers. Again, it's likely a hassle for them to go through security, but like other vendors they tend to get through fast and are not the cause of long lines.

The cause of long lines is simple: It is the TSA and many of their dog and pony procedures that slow the line. Lines would go faster is shoe removal wasn't mandatory. Lines would go faster if we didn't have to deal with the great liquid fiasco. Jackets must come off, pockets emptied, laptops and large electronic items removed. Add in the new ID examination. Multiple checking of boarding passes. Even with one carry-on I have many things to juggle:

* Shoes
* Coat/Jacket
* Coins/Keys/Metal Items/Etc
* Liquid Baggie removal
* Laptop Removal
* Removal of other Electronics

All of the above often need to go into at least two bins, then one must send the carry-on through the x-ray. Post x-ray/WTMD, put shoes on, coat back on, coins/keys/metal items back where they belong, re-pack the laptop, re-pack other electronics, re-pack the liquid baggie, etc. What else am I missing? Often I keep all my coins, keys, and other metal items in a pocket of my carry-on - while well intentioned, it sometimes causes x-ray clutter and bag must be hand-checked or ran a 2nd day.

At the same time I have to have my boarding pass ready for multiple checks

The TSA and their procedures is the cause.

When it comes to security lines, I don't mind if the vendors or employees skip to the front. They are there to provide us with coffee, newspapers, duty free, massages, gifts, ... you name it. They don't have luggage and typically slide through quickly. Overall, they don't significantly slow the lines or screening process down.

Security comes with airports and dealing with the lines and the TSA "procedures" can be frustrating at times. With respect to the TSA, I don't care much for the TSA as a government agency.

When I go through, I'm always pleasant with the screeners - if I have a problem with a particular TSO doing something wrong or giving me problems, I will demand a supervisor/manager and make my complaint known. If I am separated from my belongings or a view of my belongings, I politely advise the TSO of the situation and ask that they please take care of it.

Otherwise I tend to go with the flow. If I need to complain about procedures, the liquid rules, the shoe carnival, barkers, etc., I do this with my elected officials. I call and write my Congress-critters. I may post my experience here or any unusual observations.

Otherwise, I'm polite at the checkpoint with the TSO's. If I ask a screener for assistance with something, I say please. When leaving the checkpoint, I'll often thank the screener and wish them a pleasant day. If a specific TSO is doing a good job with something - or reminds me of my "kippie bag" when I'm re-packing my belongings, I thank them and will tell them to keep up the good work.

Lots of people, including the Ma's and Pa's see the TSA and many of their procedures for what it is - but complaining about shoe removal, the kippie bag, etc., at the checkpoint doesn't do any good. Many of your Ma' and Pa' kettles know this and I overhear people complain the about TSA or the checkpoint (often the procedures or about the barker) after they have left the checkpoint.

I know people who are afraid to speak up at the checkpoint when something is wrong. I'm not one to stay silent, but many people are intimidated to speak up when they should. Between the "barkers", the uniforms, and attitude of some TSO's, I could understand why many people don't speak up when they should. There are a lot of myths among the public -- I've spoken to people who thought the TSA had arrest powers (i.e. federal police officers) or put you on "the list" for speaking up. Instead they stay silent when they really should speak up at the checkpoint about a specific officer and/or problem..

Anyways, I'm half-asleep and rambling on here; it's very late. If something doesn't make sense, just attribute it to lack of sleep. Nite!
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Old Oct 30, 07, 4:48 am
  #63  
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Originally Posted by APW Girl View Post
Thank you for giving airport employees some support and your common sense
As someone who does not work airside anywhere, I still side with you 100%.

Of all the airport-related things to be irritated by, I find this one to be pretty weak. Misery loves company doesn't supply a good solution. Now, if the complaints were about cargo screening, okay...
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Old Oct 30, 07, 10:25 am
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I'm not paid to stand in line & will not stand in line when going to work. Now slam me.
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Old Oct 30, 07, 10:41 am
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Originally Posted by coachrowsey View Post
I'm not paid to stand in line & will not stand in line when going to work. Now slam me.
I am not paid to stand in line for work, either. Yet, I am required to fly for work on a regular basis. My employer will allow me to charge the actual flight time, including connection time at another airport. But, I cannot charge the following hours:
  • Time waiting in bassackwards in-security lines
  • Time waiting for the originating flight, since we have to get to the terminal a minimum of 90 minutes according to TSA recommendations

All of that is considered personal time, classified as "commuting" and not chargeable to my employer or customers. Gotta love getting screwed out a minimum of 2 hours away from my family, without compensation, just to make a living every time I have to fly. Yes, I chose this career, it pays me well and I like doing it. I also like flying. I realize I could change careers, and choose not to. Thus, I ..... about things here and write almost constant streams of letters to my State and Federal representatives. All of them fall on deaf ears.

Your time to get to your job at the damn insecurity c/p is also commuting time, both before and after breaks, and should be subject to the same asinine waiting periods and ID checks and shoe/liquid carnivals as the Public you serve.

Last edited by DevilDog438; Oct 30, 07 at 10:50 am
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Old Oct 30, 07, 10:43 am
  #66  
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As long as there are line-cutting McDonald's workers that don't have to follow the same "security" guidelines as others in the "sterile" area (no shoe removal) and there is a capitalism-based "security" setup where the only liquids we can have are to be purchased from said employees in the "sterile" area, the "holier than thou" employees and their bosses and the airports will never get a dime of my money.
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Old Oct 30, 07, 11:37 am
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Originally Posted by APW Girl View Post
Is anyone who is complaining willing to meet my standard of going through the line with an ID, paper money and no metal on?
Originally Posted by ND Sol View Post
So are you saying that there is a new standard? If I only have an ID, paper money and no metal on, then I can also cut to the front of the line? Sweet - sign me up.

So you don't carry any lipstick, other cosmetics, a purse, cell phone, earrings, rings, other jewelry, pens, glasses, a watch, credit cards, keys or coins when you go through the screening checkpoint at any time?

"Why waste it with standing in line." I guess that means your time happens to be more important than your customers' time.
Originally Posted by APW Girl View Post
No, I don't carry all the above you mentioned..I'm picking up lunch, not moving! Actually, my time is just as important as my customers. Why do you think that because I'm in a job that tries to help a customer that I am in some inferior position to you?
You originally stated that you only carry "ID, paper money and no metal on." But is that true each time you go through a screening checkpoint? I didn't say that you carried all of the items I mentioned, but asked if you carried any of them. That is the difference between using "and" and "or".

Unlike you, I never suggested that you are in an inferior position to me. Unlike you, I believe my time is as important (not more important) as yours, which is why I don't believe you should be cutting to the front of the line. The exception for that is when an airport employee is on the clock and actually performing his/her duties (e.g. a ticket agent having to go work the gate).
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Old Oct 30, 07, 12:06 pm
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Originally Posted by APW Girl View Post
If an employee is on a lunch break and is going through security to get pick up lunch..they may only have 30 minutes. Why waste it with standing in line. Everyone I know hates going through security, but we get bored with the same food day-in, day-out, so this has nothing to do with getting to work on time.
It sounds like it has has everything to do with getting to work on time after your lunch break.
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Old Oct 30, 07, 1:19 pm
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Originally Posted by docmonkey View Post
It sounds like it has has everything to do with getting to work on time after your lunch break.
Just because one works in an airport doesn't mean they should spend their entire lunch break in a security queue. Airport employees that jump the queue are either airline employees who are getting our flights in and out - or they're vendors who provide goods and services we all need (or want) at one time or another.

Most employees that jump the queue are able to clear the checkpoint quickly within interrupting the flow of pax. It's the TSA dog and pony show, often combined with not enough lanes being open, that results in a queue and wait for pax.

Travel overseas to an airport where said dog and pony show doesn't exist. You'll be amazed at not only the lack of queues, but how quickly one can clear security whether you're a pax or a meeter/greeter.
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Old Oct 30, 07, 1:56 pm
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Originally Posted by SDF_Traveler View Post
Travel overseas to an airport where said dog and pony show doesn't exist. You'll be amazed at not only the lack of queues, but how quickly one can clear security whether you're a pax or a meeter/greeter.
You've nailed it, but unfortunately it's easier for someone to try to shove misguided blame at a truly negligible number of airside employees, instead of seeing the actual issue, that the U.S. seems to have more problems than other countries in providing an efficient, non-humiliating screening process.
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Old Oct 30, 07, 2:07 pm
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Originally Posted by Grog View Post
You've nailed it, but unfortunately it's easier for someone to try to shove misguided blame at a truly negligible number of airside employees, instead of seeing the actual issue, that the U.S. seems to have more problems than other countries in providing an efficient, non-humiliating screening process.
Yes. I'm not blaming the employees, but allowing airside employees to skip the lines prevents their employers from bringing pressure to fix the inefficiencies.

Another poster put it very well earlier in this thread:

Originally Posted by ND Sol
Only in that way can the weight of the businesses affected be brought to bear on the TSA policies that don't actually provide security and to better utilize TSO's to minimize time in line. But right now that incentive does not exist. Right now the airlines and vendors tolerate the policies and lines because they are not greatly impacted. Once employees are treated like passengers, then the dynamics will change. And of course, the TSA doesn't want to see it changed because of the pressure that would be exerted..
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Old Oct 30, 07, 2:26 pm
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Originally Posted by Grog View Post
You've nailed it, but unfortunately it's easier for someone to try to shove misguided blame at a truly negligible number of airside employees, instead of seeing the actual issue, that the U.S. seems to have more problems than other countries in providing an efficient, non-humiliating screening process.
Well said.

When standing in a long queue, I understand it can be frustrating watching others jump ahead. I see the other side of the coin too and don't blame DevilDog for being frustrated, but I believe the blame is misplaced.

Those who work at the airport aren't to blame.

Here in the US (ok, need to change my profile one of these days) the TSA (as an organization) is full of problems when it comes to providing efficient screening.

While letters to Congress often fall on deaf ears, I take time to remind them on a regular basis of the TSA hassle and things I see wrong. Any US citizen on this board that has a gripe should at least be doing the same.

Also write to those who oversee airports one uses on a regular basis as well as the airlines. Personally, I've reduced my short haul travel here in the states as a result of the TSA and overall hassle factor.
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Old Oct 31, 07, 12:56 pm
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Originally Posted by WineIsGood View Post
I don't like crew employees cutting the security line, but something about the person who works at the swatch store in the airport cutting in front of me because they've just gotta sell those watches NOW especially rubs me the wrong way.

Some weeks I have to go through airport security 4-6 times, so I don't buy the "they have to go through security as part of their daily job" excuse.

Anyone know if non-crew employees are allowed to cut in the security line?
I have been following and posting on this thread since it began. While sitting on my 9 1/2 hour flight from Vienna your post kept coming back to me. First of all the employees you are complaining about, just might be the owner of a store that does well over a million a year and they may not be lower to you on the income ladder. Secondly, just because someone has elite status with an airline doesn't mean they are of the elite. It means they sit on planes a lot. In the last six years, I have been to Austria 9x; France 13x; Budapest 2x; Prague 2x; Amsterdam 1x; Cuba 1x; Rio 1x and 3x to Singapore. I'm not travelling on someone else's dime either. Our store was rated number one in airport customer service along with other awards. I love travelling but I also learn a lot that helps me to help my customers. I just may know as much, if not more what they will need to make their travel smoother and easier. And I'm adding to my knowledge at my own expense. I have some truly wonderful customers and many of them count on my having current information from my own travels to help them with their needs. So I consider myself more of a professional in the area in which I work. I guess the bottom line is that I have a bit of a problem with your attitude and assumptions about people working in airports.
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Old Oct 31, 07, 3:40 pm
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Originally Posted by APW Girl View Post
First of all the employees you are complaining about, just might be the owner of a store that does well over a million a year and they may not be lower to you on the income ladder. Secondly, just because someone has elite status with an airline doesn't mean they are of the elite. It means they sit on planes a lot. In the last six years, I have been to Austria 9x; France 13x; Budapest 2x; Prague 2x; Amsterdam 1x; Cuba 1x; Rio 1x and 3x to Singapore. I'm not travelling on someone else's dime either. Our store was rated number one in airport customer service along with other awards. I love travelling but I also learn a lot that helps me to help my customers. I just may know as much, if not more what they will need to make their travel smoother and easier. And I'm adding to my knowledge at my own expense. I have some truly wonderful customers and many of them count on my having current information from my own travels to help them with their needs. So I consider myself more of a professional in the area in which I work. I guess the bottom line is that I have a bit of a problem with your attitude and assumptions about people working in airports.
I'm disturbed to read this - I come from a low-income background, have worked low, medium, and medium-high income jobs, and I hope my posts indicate I believe my time to be EQUALLY valuable as anyone else in the security line, including airport vendors. That's why I think they should get in the line with the rest of us rather than cut. Frankly, I think there are good arguments for them to just show their airport ID to the TSA person at the security exit and go through the exit rather than the entrance.

What ticks me off is when people think their time is more valuable than mine - which is the message sent by cutting in line.
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Old Nov 1, 07, 4:49 pm
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Originally Posted by WineIsGood View Post
I'm disturbed to read this - I come from a low-income background, have worked low, medium, and medium-high income jobs, and I hope my posts indicate I believe my time to be EQUALLY valuable as anyone else in the security line, including airport vendors. That's why I think they should get in the line with the rest of us rather than cut. Frankly, I think there are good arguments for them to just show their airport ID to the TSA person at the security exit and go through the exit rather than the entrance.

What ticks me off is when people think their time is more valuable than mine - which is the message sent by cutting in line.
The problem with that idea is that we would be interrupting those TSA people sitting back there chatting..because they would then have to be watching two directions and still trying to chat. Don't you think this might put some of those TSA people into over load? Besides you would have others who might see this and they would try doing it to skip the lines.

Last edited by APW Girl; Nov 1, 07 at 4:51 pm Reason: To add something
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