FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   Passports and children: RFID question and therefore "security" related (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/747681-passports-children-rfid-question-therefore-security-related.html)

Mikey likes it Oct 18, 07 11:46 am

Passports and children: RFID question and therefore "security" related
 
This is security related in that my real question is whether a passport when updated with a new photo, or just renewed because of expiration, requires a reissue meaning that the RFID chip will be in the reissued passport.

My 3 yo daughter has a passport that was issued when she was about one and a half. My 7 month old daughter does not have a passport yet. Two questions:

1) What is the convention related to updating the photo on the passport for the 3 yo. Passport is good for 10 years but somehow I don't think she'll much resemble her 1.5 yo photo when she's five or six.
2) Do newly issued passports contain the RFID chip, or is there some impending date by which they will contain such a chip?

The answers to the questions above will help me decide whether to get a passport for my 7 mo old now.

Thanks.

DevilDog438 Oct 18, 07 11:54 am


Originally Posted by Mikey likes it (Post 8581424)
1) What is the convention related to updating the photo on the passport for the 3 yo. Passport is good for 10 years but somehow I don't think she'll much resemble her 1.5 yo photo when she's five or six.
2) Do newly issued passports contain the RFID chip, or is there some impending date by which they will contain such a chip?

The answers to the questions above will help me decide whether to get a passport for my 7 mo old now.

Thanks.

Child passports in the USA are valid for 5 years, according the State Department website - don't know when they started issuing 5-year v. 10 year for minors. When the passport is renewed, the following will have to occur:
  1. New original application created. The regular renewal application cannot be used until a regular passport (non-minor) passport has been issued and the holder is greater than 16 years of age.
  2. Both parents and the child in question must appear in person at an approved passport acceptance facility. If one parent is not available, there are instructions to the form/affidavit that is required to be presented to acknowledge the passport issuance.
  3. Two current pictures must be attached to the passport application, in addition to the same documentation required on the original application.
  4. If renewing, the original passport must be surrendered. It will be returned with the new passport, after having holes punched to invalidate its continued usage.
I had similar questions when I requested passports for my four rugrats a few months ago. Those answers listed are what I received. In addition, all four passports, received from the National Passport Agency, Washington, DC, were RFID-equipped.

jonesing Oct 18, 07 12:18 pm

You don't have to update a minor's passport just for photo purposes. If she got one of the last 10-year minor passports then IMHO don't bother. For the 7 month old I guess it's all dependent on when you're planning to travel. Note that DOS hasn't yet changed the rules regsrding little kids' photos so you'll have to get the baby with her eyes open. We had a hard time trying to balance our son (2 months old at the time) in his car seat with a white sheet and not get our hands in the way all while coaxing him to open his eyes only to be blinded by the camera flash!

But kudos to the Kinko's guy who took several shots and until we got the right one! ^

krobbins Oct 18, 07 12:28 pm

The five year passports for minors has been in existance since 2002 or earlier, because I just renewed for my children whose previous passports were valid for five years, so I am surprised that your 3 year old has a 10 year one. The respondent was correct who said that a complete re-app for kids under 16 is required, and definitely both parents must be present, have valid ID and the child's original birth certificate must be presented. There was quite a line at the passport office when we went and I can't tell you how many parents threw a fit because they did not have the above documentation. The DOS website does do a good job of explaining what is required. Both of my kids have chips...

GUWonder Oct 18, 07 12:31 pm

Given the ages of the children, if you want a new photo in the child's passport, they will issue a new passport using the passport stock in hand, RFID included if that's what they've got in stock.

Xyzzy Oct 18, 07 12:34 pm

The above info is correct. They've been doing five years for kids for a while. Our son's first passport in 1996 was a five year one. The biggest issue for kids' passports seems to be the requirement for both parents to show up (or have one fill out an affidavit).

Finite Elephant Oct 18, 07 1:36 pm

We're about to renew Little Elephant's passport from when he was 4 months old. He doesn't really look like that anymore. I'm fully expecting to get an RFID passport.

Hints on passport photos for infants: Put background sheet on conveniently low horizontal surface (bed, floor, etc.). Lay subject on sheet, face up. Take photo straight down, preferably while assistant makes wacky noises/faces next to camera.

Mikey likes it Oct 18, 07 3:31 pm


Originally Posted by krobbins (Post 8581694)
The five year passports for minors has been in existance since 2002 or earlier, because I just renewed for my children whose previous passports were valid for five years, so I am surprised that your 3 year old has a 10 year one.

I didn't look at hers; I just assumed it was good for 10 years. I'll look when I get home but based on the comments in this thread will expect that it's a five year passport.


Originally Posted by krobbins (Post 8581694)
Both of my kids have chips...

How'd you chip them? Ear tag?

:D

ralfp Oct 18, 07 4:17 pm


Originally Posted by krobbins (Post 8581694)
The respondent was correct who said that a complete re-app for kids under 16 is required, and definitely both parents must be present, have valid ID and the child's original birth certificate must be presented. There was quite a line at the passport office when we went and I can't tell you how many parents threw a fit because they did not have the above documentation.

5 year expiration, full reapp required until age 16. Is the State Dept. intentionally sticking it to parents; why not make it 15?

Why in the world do you need a birth certificate when renewing a kid's passport? I can understand that they might be concerned about swapping kids (baby photos are not exactly the best for ID), but how does the BC help there? Does it in any way verify anything that the old passport does not? Haven't they already seen the BC.?

Imagine if your spouse goes missing (running from the law, can't stand you anymore, etc.) Does that mean no passport for junior?

Xyzzy Oct 18, 07 5:04 pm


Originally Posted by ralfp (Post 8582992)
5 year expiration, full reapp required until age 16. Is the State Dept. intentionally sticking it to parents; why not make it 15?

Why in the world do you need a birth certificate when renewing a kid's passport? I can understand that they might be concerned about swapping kids (baby photos are not exactly the best for ID), but how does the BC help there? Does it in any way verify anything that the old passport does not? Haven't they already seen the BC.?

Imagine if your spouse goes missing (running from the law, can't stand you anymore, etc.) Does that mean no passport for junior?

Yes. It means that junior has a big hard time getting a passport.

All of this is designed to prevent international parental kidnapping. I imagine that did and does go on, but the extremes taken on this front and the amount of angst everyone else is put through seem to me to be rather extreme.

DevilDog438 Oct 18, 07 5:47 pm


Originally Posted by ralfp (Post 8582992)
Why in the world do you need a birth certificate when renewing a kid's passport? I can understand that they might be concerned about swapping kids (baby photos are not exactly the best for ID), but how does the BC help there? Does it in any way verify anything that the old passport does not? Haven't they already seen the BC.?

You need the child's BC because it is not, technically, a renewal process. Based on the way the process is currently implemented, you are completing a DS-11, which is the form for an original passport. If they were allowing the process as a renewal, you would use DS-82. The document requirements for a DS-11 require a BC to be submitted.

And, yes, they are intentionally making it difficult for the reasons stated by xyzzy. Another Nanny State requirement - MUST THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

krobbins Oct 18, 07 5:56 pm

I asked that very same question - why the BC when it is a renewal? I was told that the custody thing was part of it and that the BC had info on it on who the real dad is, thus identifying who should present identification to allow the passport to be issued. Doesn't really address why a renewal would be subject to this, given that the original dad has already been identified, except thatwith the divorce rate and custody battles, they think it is a way to prevent a parent from taking the kids out of the country that might have previously approved a passport, during happier times :p, but that now has a problem with it.

ralfp Oct 18, 07 8:21 pm


Originally Posted by DevilDog438 (Post 8583455)
You need the child's BC because it is not, technically, a renewal process. Based on the way the process is currently implemented, you are completing a DS-11, which is the form for an original passport. If they were allowing the process as a renewal, you would use DS-82. The document requirements for a DS-11 require a BC to be submitted.

And, yes, they are intentionally making it difficult for the reasons stated by xyzzy. Another Nanny State requirement - MUST THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

So the requirement is there to ensure that a parent kidnapping a child and bringing him/her abroad does it before the passport expires? :confused:

It seems that the logic is based on the premise that every trip involves getting a new passport.

krobbins Oct 19, 07 7:24 pm


Originally Posted by Mikey likes it (Post 8582701)

How'd you chip them? Ear tag?

:D

Took them to the vet where I had my dog chipped. Works like a charm. :p


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 2:29 pm.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.