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-   -   Tiny toothpaste and security (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/737689-tiny-toothpaste-security.html)

MarcPHL Sep 19, 2007 11:17 am


Originally Posted by SmilingBoy (Post 8428776)
You are right, but just imagine a cylinder 1 mm high and 35 cm diameter.

SmilingBoy.

Great example a bag that is 1x35cm will not fit into a quart sized bag.
Assuming you meant 1x35mm (without measuring to verify a quart sized bag would accommodate--and again assuming that any of this makes sense--perhaps it's been determined that 50mm is the Critical Diameter®™. Constraining the size of the container solves the problem.

Now, I don't know how this prevents such scenarios as buying something airside which support Critical Diameter®™, or checking such a container with binary components that are known to dissolve a barrier on a predictable schedule, etc.

SmilingBoy Sep 19, 2007 11:25 am


Originally Posted by MarcPHL (Post 8429142)
Great example a bag that is 1x35cm will not fit into a quart sized bag.
Assuming you meant 1x35mm (without measuring to verify a quart sized bag would accommodate--and again assuming that any of this makes sense--perhaps it's been determined that 50mm is the Critical Diameter®™. Constraining the size of the container solves the problem.

Now, I don't know how this prevents such scenarios as buying something airside which support Critical Diameter®™, or checking such a container with binary components that are known to dissolve a barrier on a predictable schedule, etc.

I did mean 35 cm, because this is more than the critical diameter (which must be defined by the size of the bag). A cylinder with 35 cm diameter and 1 mm height has pretty much exactly 100 ml.

SmilingBoy.

birdstrike Sep 19, 2007 11:29 am


Originally Posted by MarcPHL (Post 8429142)
perhaps it's been determined that 50mm is the Critical Diameter®™. Constraining the size of the container solves the problem.

There is nothing magical about container diameter that is not in the public domain. TSA is not privy to some Secret Knowledge® that they are leveraging to protect us. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.

cynicAAl Sep 19, 2007 6:26 pm


Originally Posted by wb8iny (Post 8429099)
True, but they can deny you entry airside.
The response from them would be "Do you want to fly today?"
Had it happen...... A supervisor would do nothing for you...

this seems to be the case, as happend to me with TSA at TUL. I had my liquids (all less than 3 oz) in a gallon sized ziplock bag. TSA caught it in xray and told me it had to be a quart sized bag.
me: Um, OK, but I only have this gallon size bag.
TSA: then these items can't fly
me: so you have no issue with the contents of the bag ?
TSA: no, the contents are fine
me: then what is the issue ?
TSA: you need a quart size bag
me: since the contents are safe and have already passed your screening, can I just put them in my computer bag and catch my flight ?
TSA: not without a quart size ziplock bag.
me: can I speak with a supervisor ?
TSA supv: you need a quart size bag
me: so the critical security issue here is not the liquids, but the ziplock bag ?
TSA: sir, we don't make the rules, if you don't like them, complain to your congressman
me: are you empowered in any way to apply common sense and actually see that there is no threat to aviation security here ?
TSA: no, we are not.
me: throw them in the trash, I have a flight to catch.

This is how it actually happened.

lhj1723 Sep 19, 2007 6:53 pm

Perhaps TSA or the Feds have a secret investment in the manufacturing of the plastic bags which helps them fund all their other smart initiatives. They needed to increase the sales of bags so that their return on the investment would increase. :D

cpx Sep 19, 2007 7:02 pm


Originally Posted by lhj1723 (Post 8431601)
Perhaps TSA or the Feds have a secret investment in the manufacturing of the plastic bags which helps them fund all their other smart initiatives. They needed to increase the sales of bags so that their return on the investment would increase. :D

I wish they were at least that smart.

kaukau Sep 19, 2007 7:18 pm


Originally Posted by cynicAAl (Post 8431507)
this seems to be the case, as happend to me with TSA at TUL. I had my liquids (all less than 3 oz) in a gallon sized ziplock bag. TSA caught it in xray and told me it had to be a quart sized bag........

me: are you empowered in any way to apply common sense and actually see that there is no threat to aviation security here ?
TSA: no, we are not.

Well, at least he was honest with you. No different than a bartender being forced to ask a 70 year-old for ID proof that they're over 21. Someone in charge of policy has indeed determined that their employees are, as a group, too stupid to apply common sense and make decisions based on their own judgement; so a set of unwavering parameters is instituted to take the human factor out of the equation.

As we all know, from the moronic Kip Hawley "interviews", that Kippie was "told by some scientists that volatile chemicals in amounts less than one quart would not pose a threat to aviation."; so the TSA then figured that if they limited the amount of liquids pax could bring on board to "as many 3oz bottles that can be stowed inside a 1 qt. ziplock bag with the zipper zipped, that the immutable laws of physics would then say that the total volume of liquid inside the bag could never be >1 qt."; and then they could hire anybody to do the checking, without having a degree in physics or mathematics; and we would all be safer for their efforts.

PatrickHenry1775 Sep 20, 2007 2:06 am


Originally Posted by kaukau (Post 8431673)
Well, at least he was honest with you. No different than a bartender being forced to ask a 70 year-old for ID proof that they're over 21. Someone in charge of policy has indeed determined that their employees are, as a group, too stupid to apply common sense and make decisions based on their own judgement; so a set of unwavering parameters is instituted to take the human factor out of the equation.

As we all know, from the moronic Kip Hawley "interviews", that Kippie was "told by some scientists that volatile chemicals in amounts less than one quart would not pose a threat to aviation."; so the TSA then figured that if they limited the amount of liquids pax could bring on board to "as many 3oz bottles that can be stowed inside a 1 qt. ziplock bag with the zipper zipped, that the immutable laws of physics would then say that the total volume of liquid inside the bag could never be >1 qt."; and then they could hire anybody to do the checking, without having a degree in physics or mathematics; and we would all be safer for their efforts.

Did TSA ever consider that terrorists Abdul, Mohammed, Osama, etc. could each have 1 qt. bags filled with the dangerous liquids? Under the current TSA screening protocol, each could carry several containers in his own Kippie bag through the checkpoint. Once in the "sterile" area, the terrorists could then consolidate the contents with one terrorist or, to foil the gate checks, just waltz onto the targeted flight. Once on the target airliner, our intrepid terrorist chemists would then mix up a batch of binary explosives with the precursors they carried through the checkpoint in their Kippie bags.

TSA is such a bad joke, but at least it is employing over 40,000 individuals. The economy must be experiencing some stimulus from these workers.


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