Amtrak and ID
 

Last tour of duty, the evening of 13th September, while on the northbound San Joaquin from Bakersfield, CA to Hanford, CA a conductor came by to check tickets and ID's. One guy sitting not too far away did not or said he did not have ID. I overheard the conductor say that he would let it slide this time but normally if someone does not have ID the police are supposed to be called to find out why the person does not have ID.

This is becoming truly frightening.

You don't need an ID to fly domestically, so why should you need an ID to take the train?

Reference from Amtrak Website.

I agree that this is appalling, but they do tell you about the requirement on their web site.

I always thought the whole point of amtrak or greyhound was because someone did not have a drivers license. True there are state IDs, but they are not as cool.

It's interesting that you must produce ID at the request of an Amtrak janitor.

We are well on the way to the day when it will be illegal to lose your ID or have your ID stolen. People already get arrested for failing to present ID to a cop (even though such an arrest is generally unconstitutional).

Can you withhold ID on the fact that you don't want to be identified riding on Amtrak? :D

More than appalling...
 

Yes, they disclose it, but that doesn't make it right.

What other option for train travel does one have other than this federally subsidized/controlled entity.

Amerika - love it or leave it.

But you can't leave without ID.

Yes you can. You can walk into Mexico without ID.

As for the janitor comment...that isn't strictly true, because the policy says you only have to produce ID for Amtrak employees "on board trains". Amtrak trains do not have janitors, as such.

I wish I was as sanguine about that as it sounds. :(

"Papiere, Bitte."

"Ja."

[QUOTE

We are well on the way to the day when it will be illegal to lose your ID or have your ID stolen. People already get arrested for failing to present ID to a cop (even though such an arrest is generally unconstitutional).[/QUOTE]


Foreshadows of the mark of the beast. Details in Revelation chapter 13 especially verses 16-18 also chapter 14 verses 9-11 et al

My older son was not permitted to board an Amtrak train at Union Station in Los Angeles this March without ID. He scrounged around Skid Row and got on Greyhound. The younger one has never been allowed on the northbound trains from Solana Beach without ID.

Seems a bit daft. If you can legally board an airplane without ID, why should you not be legally allowed to take a train. From a security standpoint, what the hell can a train do?

Completely off topic, but I saw a guy wearing a T shirt the other day that said "667 Neighbor of the beast!'

Substitute "Communist Party Membership Card" for "ID" and you will accurately describe life in the former Soviet Union. Heaven help you if you lost your card.

Why would you think TSA guidelines are based on anything rational?

Well, I've been to Mexico twice, and in both cases I've entered legally on foot and in neither case did I have to present ID.

I'm just pointing out that the idea that you need ID to legally leave the country is a fallacy. The problem is that when you leave this country, you are entering another country, which generally requires documentation to do so. That is not the fault of the United States government, as such.

However, this is not universally true as anyone who's crossed into Mexico knows. If you want to return to the US, you will need ID. But the United States is not a prison. You are free to leave at anytime...no ID required.

From what's been said here, the Amtrak rules are NOT TSA rules.

But onboard trains, the announcement is that they are complying with TSA regulations to do random ID checks (uh oh...or do they say "Federal Regulations"...now I'm not sure).

My comment was not directed at the facts of your statement, but about the fact distinctions have to be made about which modes of transborder crossing we're talking about.

Of course, but let's back up to the moment while both feet are on U.S. soil ...

]

Of course. I don't think anyone is challenging that here.

By commerical air, ID is now (or will finally be) mandatory for travel even to US protectorates. Another proposal is to deny exit to those with outstanding child support payments. Several recent threads detail the hows and whys of this proposal. Not a de facto prison, but where do the stipulations stop?

To suggest that one is free to leave at anytime is just not the case.

But they do have cleaning and maintenance staff that are sometimes aboard trains at the same time as passengers.

That would be across the street.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest you disputed this. I was originally responding to Post #10, wherein the poster alleged you need an ID to leave the country. A lot of people seem to think this is true, and I was simply pointing out that it is not.

Actually, I disagree. Please name a time of day/week/year that a United States citizen who is not currently incarcerated is not free to leave.

Now, if that citizen lives in Salina, Kansas they may have a few logistical obstacles, yes. But they are, strictly speaking, perfectly free to walk/hitchhike/bike to the border and leave, and no ID is required.

I will grant you that people living in Alaska or Hawaii will encounter additional obstacles. But since flying domestically without ID is still possible, as outlined elsewhere on FT, it is techinically possible for them as well.

Amtrak has undertaken heightened security measures for the benefit of our customers.

Valid Photo Identification Required

Photo ID Required
Amtrak customers 18 years of age and older must produce valid photo identification when:

Obtaining, exchanging, and refunding tickets
Storing baggage at stations
Checking baggage
Sending Amtrak Express shipments
Onboard trains, in response to a request by an Amtrak employee
Please note that unaccompanied children 15 and older must also produce valid photo ID when purchasing tickets.

Random Ticket/ID Checks
Following federal Transportation Security Administration (TSA) guidelines, we regularly conduct random ticket verification checks onboard trains to ensure that passengers are properly ticketed. Please be prepared to show valid photo identification to a member of the onboard crew upon request.

What is a Valid ID?
To be valid, your identification must be current and in-force. The following forms of identification are acceptable for persons 18 and older:

One piece of photo identification issued by a government authority, or
Two pieces of identification, at least one of which is a non-photo ID issued by a government authority
Examples of acceptable forms of ID include:

State or provincial driver's license
Passport
Official government-issued identification (federal, state or county government or legitimate foreign government)
Canadian provincial health card ID card with photo
Military photo ID
Student identification (university, college or high school photo ID)
Job Corps photo ID
Policy Regarding Ticket Purchase

Passengers purchasing tickets from station ticket agents or on board trains from conductors must provide photo identification and be at least 15 years old.

Passengers boarding at any staffed station or station with a Quik-Trak kiosk should purchase tickets prior to boarding the train.

Tickets purchased on board include a service fee built into the fare. This fee cannot be waived.

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/Conten...=1080080554204

:rolleyes:

I think that's a bit of a stretch. What you're saying is that during a station layover, when a member of the cleaning crew (or "janitor", to use your term) is briefly on board the train, that person would technically be authorized to demand you to produce an ID. Boy, that's just not something that's going to keep me up at night.

If anyone can cite an example of this actually happening, I'd love to hear about it. I'd wager that Amtrak internal policies actually forbid this, but I could be wrong.

I've found that by handing the conductor my ticket while wearing headphones and not making eye contect, I've never been asked for ID.

And I discovered the hard way that this "ID" policy extends to purchasing a $6 MARC ticket with cash either out of Union station or the BWI rail station.

Eventually they'll just tattoo our social security numbers on our foreheads and make it a felony to wear bangs.

Forearms would be more convenient.

Guidelines, not requirements. Big difference.

I ride the MARC almost every day that I'm in town. At the major terminals (like Union Station and BWI), their counter ticketing is done by AMTRAK, hence the ID harassment. At the expense of using your credit card, you can buy a MARC ticket from the AMTRAK ticket machines. Also, you can buy a MARC ticket from anywhere to anywhere from any MARC manned station (such as Silver Spring, Germantown, or Brunswick) by cash or credit card without the ID intrusion. Look on the MARC website and you might find that there's a manned station fairly convenient to you.

Every member of the MARC crews I've ever met have been great people (if not a little crazy). I've no doubt they would tell the TSA to stuff it by just ignoring their direction.

That's the rule. Or are you calling Amtrak a liar?

Of course it's a stretch.

Yes, I'm calling Amtrak a liar. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I'm not sure how you made that leap of logic. I'm just saying I think it's improbable that an Amtrak janitor will ever demand that you produce ID. As you point out, it would appear to be technically possible for this to happen. From a practical standpoint, I'd wager this has never happened.

Here's another way of looking at things:

Despite the hand-wringing on this thread, traveling by train is indisputably less of a hassle than traveling by air, when it comes to security. I've never had to remove my shoes to board a train, never had to worry about the size of my shampoo bottle, never been patted down at a train station. Etc.

So maybe, just maybe, the head honchos at Amtrak are implementing these measures as a way of saying "Look, we're doing something". Whether intended or not, this has the effect of holding off the TSA bunch from implementing much more draconian security measures. It's easy to imagine someone at TSA wanting to require metal detectors at NYP, 30th St, etc.

Is it perfect freedom of modes of travel w/r/t transborder crossing are restricted to walking, biking or driving -- and maybe gliding, ballooning, horseback riding? That sounds like equivocal and a highly qualified "freedom," not the perfect freedom of movement that you seem to be suggesting.

IJWK how many 15 year olds have photo ID? Most states do not issue licenses to drive until 17 or 18.

In any event, this rule really helps perpetuate the myth that ID=security. :td: