thenelsons

Originally Posted by xyzzy
I suppose that you would have suggested that Rosa Parks start a letter writing campaign rather than refuse to give up her seat near the front of the bus and waste the time of the other passengers


She didn't take the time of the other passengers because she wouldn't show ID, it was because she wouldn't give up her seat just because she was black...SHEESH! How does that compare to showing your id at the airport? I know I'm blonde but I'm failing to see the similiarities in the two situations.

We Will Never Forget

It's all semantics.

You can't refuse the process, per se.

Imagine a small child who is afraid of the machine.

Not going through it would then constitute a refusal of sorts.

To deal with this, the alternate screening method would then be employed.

Thus you could choose "B" in lieu of "A" and still be in compliance with the policy.

hl78

Besides 15 seconds of your time? Plus the cumlative time of all those in front of you whose ID's were checked? I'm sure that adds up to quite a bit.

When both the TSA admits per another thread that no ID is required, and a valid US government employee ID is denied as being valid (one which requires background checks, fingerprints, financial records, neighbor interviews etc) one should question what exactly is being gained by presenting an ID?

ND Sol

Which rule is the OP asking to have changed in this thread? He is only asking that the TSA follows the rules it has put in place. Is it too much to ask a Government agency to follow its own rules?

doober

Don't you get it? Showing ID has NOTHING too do with security. Anyone can get a fake ID and the "document checkers" are not competent enough to find the vast majority of fake ID's. Not to mention that the courts have ruled that one does not need to show ID to travel domestically.

Can you have such narrow vision as to not see where this is heading if it's not stopped by individuals who have the wherewithal to protest the beginnings of "papers, please."

Wally Bird

No, just want to hand out more Eagle Eye awards.

The TSA did make a big bust of fake IDs, but not during the "ID check" - the genius had a whole bunch in his carry on. (HNL I think - can't find the item).

Wally Bird

Shhhh ! ^

Wally Bird

Ibid.

Wally Bird

Already happening. Hotels, stores and all kinds of other places are routinely asking for "ID". America (and Canada I guess) has always, as far as I can remember, been ID-obsessed; other than showing my passport at borders nowhere else in the free world have I ever been asked for ID. Yes, you have to surrender your passport at some hotels when staying there, but nobody ever looks at it.

My main "disdain" is that despite the utter futility of expecting to discover a terrorist simply by a cursory ID examination, the government continues to use this very point as justification for ID checking. That is, at best woefully misguided and at worst, an outright falsehood. But that may not bother some of you...

icarius

when the tsa first started the ambiguous rule of only 3/4" shoes must come off, a lot of flyers tried to push the limit by enforcing their rights not to remove their shoes. The TSA then decided to avoid any more confrontations, all shoes must come off. I imagine something similar here. It appears to me if you refuse to show ID, they can insist on checking your wallet, then take your ID and copy down the information. How does anyone win the fight then?? ID theft???

Xyzzy

Others have said it quite well several times above, but if you want it spelled out for you again, I will do so.

In the US we currently have a right to travel without being forced to show our ID/papers as proof that we can be where we are. Courts have upheld this. The TSA asking for ID and comparing it with the name on the boarding pass has nothing to do with the its stated function of keeping travel/transit safe. Just because I have an ID card does not mean that I do or do not have a weapon. The two things have nothing whatsoever to do with each other. Yet, they still ask for ID. Checking ID takes time but provides no added benefit to travelers. It does, however, serve as an official enforcement of the airlines' ticket non-transferability rules. Once you realize this maybe you'll protest the ID checkers rather than those who are pointing out the TSA's flawed logic.

Let's go one step farther. Suppose you still don't agree with me. You think, "I'm not a terrorist. I have nothing to hide. Okay, here's my ID." Where does this stop? What if they decide to start checking your ID when you cross state lines claiming that the check is to prevent parental abduction of children. That sounds like a worthy cause too -- and you're not planning on any abductions. What will you do when they conduct ID check sweeps of your neighborhood, "Just to keep things safe." Where does this end? It all started so innocently at the airport.

Remember, checking ID has NOTHING to do with whether someone has a weapon. TSA's stated goal is, "...Protect[ing] the Nation’s transportation systems to ensure freedom of movement for people and commerce." Checking ID certainly doesn't sound like it ensures freedom of movement.

videomaker

Did you read the first post in this thread?

oneant

You can't support a position using hypothetical exmaples that are not reality. Asking us how we feel about being randomly stopped and ID'd at state borders or just walking down the street has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with them checking my ID at the airport.

This is seriously a tempest in a teapot. Of all of the things our ludicrously fearful gov't has implemented, or tried to implement, after 9/11, y'all really think this one is THAT important?

gj83

The TSA officer had my ID in his hand for over a minute and addressed me by my full name (SC will not allow just a middle initial on a license). I had to make the comment "What are you doing, memorizing it?" to get my ID back.

Seriously, if you were plotting to blow up the airline, would you travel with your real name and ID? NO!

I hate these "nothing to hide" arguments. I have nothing to hide, but that doesn't mean that I need everyone in the world to know my full name and address.

doober

If one does resort to the "I've got nothing to hide" line, perhaps reading an essay by Daniel J. Solove, "Nothing to Hide" will change the reader's mind.