Another TSA Confiscation Program (PNS)
Aug 21, 2007, 10:13 am
#31
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 376
They are taking items belonging to passengers without freely-granted consent. If the passenger refuses, governmental force is applied to separate said item(s) from them (and to place the person in "custody"). Answers.com provides definitions of the term "robbery" from a number of sources. Of particular applicability, IMO, is the one from the "Law Encyclopedia" listing:
"Robbery
The taking of money or goods in the possession of another, from his or her person or immediate presence, by force or intimidation."
It goes on to provide quite a bit of amplifying information, but the very first line sums things up quite handily. I saw nothing to indicate this would not apply simply because the actor in question was a government agent.
BIG surprise...
And sometimes it's not. Be a sheep if you want.
Don't presume to demand that those who disagree with you must be, as well.
"Robbery
The taking of money or goods in the possession of another, from his or her person or immediate presence, by force or intimidation."
It goes on to provide quite a bit of amplifying information, but the very first line sums things up quite handily. I saw nothing to indicate this would not apply simply because the actor in question was a government agent.
BIG surprise...
And sometimes it's not. Be a sheep if you want.
Don't presume to demand that those who disagree with you must be, as well.
Aug 21, 2007, 10:54 am
#32
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Concord, CA
Programs: AA PLT, MileagePlus
Posts: 2,617
All BS asside, state sponsored confiscations are legal. Well, of course whoever makes these laws is not subject to them (Chandra Levy and the congressional pages come to mind) but because of that reason the lawmaking patricians simply don't care anymore. Yea, they will take your water and your toothpaste. Quite frankly what they do with it is none of my concern. Once the hands of a TSA have been on my stuff I feel DIRTY. Not to mention my feet. I mean for the love of any god figure out there, isn't walking barefoot in a public place a dangerous health hazard?
Yes you pack your bag yourself, yes you are responsible for your own actions, but let's not forget. TSA is here to stay, no matter what the "robbed" public says. And guess what... ALL OF YOU ARE TO BLAME! Not me... I can't vote (not a citizen yet) but the rest of you are to blame for this BS. Why isn't any of the right seekers out there running for office in a honest effort to change things? Why do we have to be subjected to the same neglecting lawmakers year in and year out? We don't have to, but we do. Because we like placing blame and not assume responsability. We like complaining about things we want changed yet we do nothing to change them.
That's it... whatever lesson is to be drawn from this, feel free to draw it.
Yes you pack your bag yourself, yes you are responsible for your own actions, but let's not forget. TSA is here to stay, no matter what the "robbed" public says. And guess what... ALL OF YOU ARE TO BLAME! Not me... I can't vote (not a citizen yet) but the rest of you are to blame for this BS. Why isn't any of the right seekers out there running for office in a honest effort to change things? Why do we have to be subjected to the same neglecting lawmakers year in and year out? We don't have to, but we do. Because we like placing blame and not assume responsability. We like complaining about things we want changed yet we do nothing to change them.
That's it... whatever lesson is to be drawn from this, feel free to draw it.
Aug 21, 2007, 11:34 am
#33
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: BWI/DCA/IAD
Programs: United 1K, Marriott Platinum, VX Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 96
Whenever I've accidentally tried to carry a prohibited item through security, the TSO has always said I could check it, put it in my car, mail it, drink it landside and come back through, or surrender it.
In other words they were offering a conveniently located trash can in addition to the other options.
Now I think the TSA rules are as stupid and ineffective as the next guy, but I've never seen anyone forced to give anything up without there being some way to keep it--you just can't bring it into the sterile area.
In other words they were offering a conveniently located trash can in addition to the other options.
Now I think the TSA rules are as stupid and ineffective as the next guy, but I've never seen anyone forced to give anything up without there being some way to keep it--you just can't bring it into the sterile area.
Aug 21, 2007, 12:40 pm
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
All BS asside, state sponsored confiscations are legal. Well, of course whoever makes these laws is not subject to them (Chandra Levy and the congressional pages come to mind) but because of that reason the lawmaking patricians simply don't care anymore. Yea, they will take your water and your toothpaste. Quite frankly what they do with it is none of my concern. Once the hands of a TSA have been on my stuff I feel DIRTY. Not to mention my feet. I mean for the love of any god figure out there, isn't walking barefoot in a public place a dangerous health hazard?
Yes you pack your bag yourself, yes you are responsible for your own actions, but let's not forget. TSA is here to stay, no matter what the "robbed" public says. And guess what... ALL OF YOU ARE TO BLAME! Not me... I can't vote (not a citizen yet) but the rest of you are to blame for this BS. Why isn't any of the right seekers out there running for office in a honest effort to change things? Why do we have to be subjected to the same neglecting lawmakers year in and year out? We don't have to, but we do. Because we like placing blame and not assume responsability. We like complaining about things we want changed yet we do nothing to change them.
That's it... whatever lesson is to be drawn from this, feel free to draw it.
Yes you pack your bag yourself, yes you are responsible for your own actions, but let's not forget. TSA is here to stay, no matter what the "robbed" public says. And guess what... ALL OF YOU ARE TO BLAME! Not me... I can't vote (not a citizen yet) but the rest of you are to blame for this BS. Why isn't any of the right seekers out there running for office in a honest effort to change things? Why do we have to be subjected to the same neglecting lawmakers year in and year out? We don't have to, but we do. Because we like placing blame and not assume responsability. We like complaining about things we want changed yet we do nothing to change them.
That's it... whatever lesson is to be drawn from this, feel free to draw it.
A lot of us try to do things within the framework of what we have. You can only run for office every so often.
And just because no one has mentioned it here (or even recently), doesn't mean that people are sitting back and doing nothing either.
Aug 21, 2007, 8:04 pm
#35
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwest Georgia
Programs: Delta, Hilton, ICH, Hertz
Posts: 302
Whenever I've accidentally tried to carry a prohibited item through security, the TSO has always said I could check it, put it in my car, mail it, drink it landside and come back through, or surrender it.
In other words they were offering a conveniently located trash can in addition to the other options.
Now I think the TSA rules are as stupid and ineffective as the next guy, but I've never seen anyone forced to give anything up without there being some way to keep it--you just can't bring it into the sterile area.
In other words they were offering a conveniently located trash can in addition to the other options.
Now I think the TSA rules are as stupid and ineffective as the next guy, but I've never seen anyone forced to give anything up without there being some way to keep it--you just can't bring it into the sterile area.
Aug 21, 2007, 8:24 pm
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
In other words they were offering a conveniently located trash can in addition to the other options.
Now I think the TSA rules are as stupid and ineffective as the next guy, but I've never seen anyone forced to give anything up without there being some way to keep it--you just can't bring it into the sterile area.
Aug 22, 2007, 3:19 pm
#37
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: RTP
Programs: AA(EXP), BA, Hilton, Starwood
Posts: 1,250
My basic rule is that when I hit the word "sheeple" in a post, I can stop reading because the noise:signal ratio is almost guaranteed to be baaaad. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
I think the old P(Hitler)=1 argument may need updating.
I think the old P(Hitler)=1 argument may need updating.
Sep 20, 2007, 8:38 am
#38
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 966
Update to bump an old thread...
I got this from one of my Senators today, after sending emails to both regarding the "donations-to-the-homeless" confiscations. About the best I can say about it is, it looks like SOMEONE in the office at least read my email. It's not a COMPLETE form letter. Just MOSTLY one.
"Dear Mr. Tank:
Thank you for contacting me with your concerns about prohibited items that are confiscated from passengers. I always appreciate hearing from my fellow Virginians.
In the post-September 11th world, maintaining security at airports and on airplanes has become one of our nation’s utmost homeland security priorities. Although some security measures might seem excessive, most are necessary to protect our nation from an enemy that seeks to do massive harm. I commend law enforcement and Transportation Security Administration (TSA) officials for their ceaseless dedication and service.
I do realize, however, that disruptions and annoyances caused by these necessary security measures can frustrate passengers. While Americans might be angered or inconvenienced by these measures, please be assured that they are being taken with the utmost concern for the people and that every effort is being made to make them as unobtrusive as possible. Furthermore, the TSA has assured me that they continually review their policies to ensure that they remain appropriate and effective.
Although no legislation is currently before Congress regarding the possibility of confiscated, liquid items being donated to homeless shelters, please be assured that I will keep your views in mind should legislation on this issue arise before the Senate. If I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Again, thank you for contacting me to express your concern.
With kind regards, I am
Sincerely,
John Warner
United States Senator"
In general,
for no concern over anything but maintaining the status quo - but then, Warner is (last I heard) not intending to stand for re-election and doesn't need to express REAL concern for his constituents anymore, let alone actually DO anything about them.
I got this from one of my Senators today, after sending emails to both regarding the "donations-to-the-homeless" confiscations. About the best I can say about it is, it looks like SOMEONE in the office at least read my email. It's not a COMPLETE form letter. Just MOSTLY one.
"Dear Mr. Tank:
Thank you for contacting me with your concerns about prohibited items that are confiscated from passengers. I always appreciate hearing from my fellow Virginians.
In the post-September 11th world, maintaining security at airports and on airplanes has become one of our nation’s utmost homeland security priorities. Although some security measures might seem excessive, most are necessary to protect our nation from an enemy that seeks to do massive harm. I commend law enforcement and Transportation Security Administration (TSA) officials for their ceaseless dedication and service.
I do realize, however, that disruptions and annoyances caused by these necessary security measures can frustrate passengers. While Americans might be angered or inconvenienced by these measures, please be assured that they are being taken with the utmost concern for the people and that every effort is being made to make them as unobtrusive as possible. Furthermore, the TSA has assured me that they continually review their policies to ensure that they remain appropriate and effective.
Although no legislation is currently before Congress regarding the possibility of confiscated, liquid items being donated to homeless shelters, please be assured that I will keep your views in mind should legislation on this issue arise before the Senate. If I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Again, thank you for contacting me to express your concern.
With kind regards, I am
Sincerely,
John Warner
United States Senator"
In general,
for no concern over anything but maintaining the status quo - but then, Warner is (last I heard) not intending to stand for re-election and doesn't need to express REAL concern for his constituents anymore, let alone actually DO anything about them.
Sep 20, 2007, 8:47 am
#39
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
Update to bump an old thread...
I got this from one of my Senators today, after sending emails to both regarding the "donations-to-the-homeless" confiscations. About the best I can say about it is, it looks like SOMEONE in the office at least read my email. It's not a COMPLETE form letter. Just MOSTLY one.
"Dear Mr. Tank:
Thank you for contacting me with your concerns about prohibited items that are confiscated from passengers. I always appreciate hearing from my fellow Virginians.
In the post-September 11th world, maintaining security at airports and on airplanes has become one of our nation’s utmost homeland security priorities. Although some security measures might seem excessive, most are necessary to protect our nation from an enemy that seeks to do massive harm. I commend law enforcement and Transportation Security Administration (TSA) officials for their ceaseless dedication and service.
I do realize, however, that disruptions and annoyances caused by these necessary security measures can frustrate passengers. While Americans might be angered or inconvenienced by these measures, please be assured that they are being taken with the utmost concern for the people and that every effort is being made to make them as unobtrusive as possible. Furthermore, the TSA has assured me that they continually review their policies to ensure that they remain appropriate and effective.
Although no legislation is currently before Congress regarding the possibility of confiscated, liquid items being donated to homeless shelters, please be assured that I will keep your views in mind should legislation on this issue arise before the Senate. If I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Again, thank you for contacting me to express your concern.
With kind regards, I am
Sincerely,
John Warner
United States Senator"
In general, for no concern over anything but maintaining the status quo - but then, Warner is (last I heard) not intending to stand for re-election and doesn't need to express REAL concern for his constituents anymore, let alone actually DO anything about them.
I got this from one of my Senators today, after sending emails to both regarding the "donations-to-the-homeless" confiscations. About the best I can say about it is, it looks like SOMEONE in the office at least read my email. It's not a COMPLETE form letter. Just MOSTLY one.
"Dear Mr. Tank:
Thank you for contacting me with your concerns about prohibited items that are confiscated from passengers. I always appreciate hearing from my fellow Virginians.
In the post-September 11th world, maintaining security at airports and on airplanes has become one of our nation’s utmost homeland security priorities. Although some security measures might seem excessive, most are necessary to protect our nation from an enemy that seeks to do massive harm. I commend law enforcement and Transportation Security Administration (TSA) officials for their ceaseless dedication and service.
I do realize, however, that disruptions and annoyances caused by these necessary security measures can frustrate passengers. While Americans might be angered or inconvenienced by these measures, please be assured that they are being taken with the utmost concern for the people and that every effort is being made to make them as unobtrusive as possible. Furthermore, the TSA has assured me that they continually review their policies to ensure that they remain appropriate and effective.
Although no legislation is currently before Congress regarding the possibility of confiscated, liquid items being donated to homeless shelters, please be assured that I will keep your views in mind should legislation on this issue arise before the Senate. If I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Again, thank you for contacting me to express your concern.
With kind regards, I am
Sincerely,
John Warner
United States Senator"
In general,
for no concern over anything but maintaining the status quo - but then, Warner is (last I heard) not intending to stand for re-election and doesn't need to express REAL concern for his constituents anymore, let alone actually DO anything about them.
