TSA Wants to Know Where I'm Going

Old Aug 9, 2007, 9:23 pm
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by DCA TSO
Thanks Andy, I hope that I was one of these screeners you are referencing.

I'm quitting my job as a screener and in September I'll be doing something else. The job as a screener was getting more and more intolerable. I think the final straw came when I learned that TSOs will be assuming the duties of: ticket checker, liquids tester, and bin runners. We don't have enough screeners to get people out of the fishbowl or do bag checks or sometimes to rotate out someone who's been on x-ray or WTMD for an hour. And the hiring by TSA of only part-time screeners has been disastrous, at least at my airport. Most of them are quitting or planning to quit because they cannot sustain being forced to work 5 days a week but only being allowed to work 5-hour days. These new hires have the option of working full-time, "split shift", if they want to start work at 4:45 am and work until 10:30 am and then be back at 1 pm and work until 4:30 pm (um, like, let me see if the Chinese labor camp has a better offer). Some new, good quality screeners have requested if they could at least work 6 hrs. x 4 days per week. They were denied. Meanwhile you have full-time uber-loafers who don't do a damn thing, b!tch about passengers and treat them like dirt, text message on x-ray, WTMD, and every other position and they're getting these $3000 Kip Hawley PASS bonuses!

So, I'm out of TSA and I'm out of FT. This is my last post and, au revoir friends, I'm signing off.
Hey, you're welcome! Yes, you were one of them.

You don't have to leave this forum, tho - stick around, like Superguy suggested. Or at least change your name so you won't be seen as "one of them" anymore by some people.
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Old Aug 9, 2007, 9:53 pm
  #77  
 
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Originally Posted by TransitJohn
Exactly...they're the same as mall rent-a-cops.
Actually, unlike any TSO on the job, many rent-a-cops are armed! They are at the local Whole Foods, those Earth-crunchy tree huggers make for easy targets.
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Old Aug 9, 2007, 10:33 pm
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Originally Posted by mkt
I'd still rather not answer However, I've yet to meet a TSO that speaks any French. Spanish isn't hard... so I keep my first language at bay.
Ah, but DCATSO just bade us "au revoir." C'est francais, n'est pas?
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Old Aug 9, 2007, 10:42 pm
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.....

Last edited by RoyalFlush; Apr 4, 2009 at 12:45 pm
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 4:03 am
  #80  
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Originally Posted by PTravel
Okay, time for a reality check:

1. Answering "New York" as a destination when flying into EWR is not lying to a federal officer and you won't be prosecuted for it, much less "turned into an Al Qaeda informant." That's just ridiculous. Far more likely is, if they're suspicious of you for some reason, they'll either hold you indefinitely without explanation or justification (and the does violate your Constitutional rights) or, more likely, if you are not a U.S. citizen, simply refuse to admit you to the country.)
Have a look at the Abdulallah Higazy case and others -- the tactic is to badger a suspect until they say something that can be used to charge them with "lying to a federal officer". They interrogate in tag-team fashion -- one will ask, "what time did you get up this morning?" You answer "six". Two hours later, another interrogator throws in a question, "so, you got up at seven, then what?" You: "I don't know, had a shower, got dressed" FBI: "Aha! Lying to the FBI!" You: "what?" FBI: "Bob, bring the tape in here". Then they play the tape of you earlier saying you got up at six, and then indict you for lying. But, they'll drop the charge, on one condition, you have to become an informant for them. Higazy got lucky because another witness has the courage to speak up and admit his original statement concerning the air traffic radio he found was false. Others have not been so fortunate, and are either serving long sentences, or were kidnapped and taken to Guanatanamo, like Bisher al-Rawi, who was held there for five years because he refused to be an informant, although they knew all along he hadn't done anything wrong himself. If you refuse to answer ANY questions, there is no possibility of being slapped with a trumped up "lying to the FBI" charge.

Originally Posted by PTravel
2. The right against self-incrimination under the 5th Amendment applies to non-citizens as well as citizens. You do not have to answer anything. However, DHS also doesn't have to admit you to the country if you are a non-citizen. TSOs are not law enforcement officers (though DHS Immigration are). However, any admission made to anyone can always be used against you. U.S. citizens do have an absolute right to be re-admitted to the U.S. I had an interesting run-in once with an Immigration officer who threatened (in a light, joking but certainly serious way) to refuse to re-admit me unless I answered a question which, as a matter of law, I was bound not to answer (He asked me the name of the client I had gone to visit in Toronto).
It is clear anything you say to a TSO could be used against you, but I am not clear about whether making a false statement to one is in and of itself considered a crime the way making a false statement to an FBI officer is. In any case, it's still wise not to answer anything you are not legally obliged to. Yes, you could be denied entry, but that's better than being charged with a crime and facing the possibility of spending thousands of dollars disproving the allegation, if you even get to a trial.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 6:37 am
  #81  
 
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A lot of paranoid posts on here. I guess when you have a hatred for a group of people, then the worst is always suspected. My guess would be that the TSA does not really care where you are traveling to, they are just using an old form of questioning to observe your body language and to see if YOU know where you are going. Many times, people that obtain fake I.D. get nervous enough during questioning that they can not remember the fake name and address on the I.D. This is an old police trick that works well. Will this stop a terrorist attack? Probably not..unless the terrorist was told to go to the airport and pick up a ticket and I.D. from someone and did not memorize the information, destination, or airline. Might lead to further questioning. Its a tool, nothing more. Even the TSA has better things to do than worry about where your are flying to. FWIW...the FBI does not habitually tape interviews...Abdallah Higazy was tripped up using a polygraph machine and admitted ownership of the radio during the test. This is why Satan made the defense lawyer.

Last edited by hiltonhead; Aug 10, 2007 at 6:43 am
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 6:45 am
  #82  
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Originally Posted by hiltonhead
A lot of paranoid posts on here. I guess when you have a hatred for a group of people, then the worst is always suspected. My guess would be that the TSA does not really care where you are traveling to, they are just using an old form of questioning to observe your body language and to see if YOU know where you are going. Many times, people that obtain fake I.D. get nervous enough during questioning that they can not remember the fake name and address on the I.D. This is an old police trick that works well. Will this stop a terrorist attack? Probably not..unless the terrorist was told to go to the airport and pick up a ticket and I.D. from someone and did not memorize the information, destination, or airline. Might lead to further questioning. Its a tool, nothing more. Even the TSA has better things to do than worry about where your are flying to.
See SPOT walk. See SPOT bark. See SPOT fall on its face.

Consistent inconsistency ... to keep the terrorists on their toes.

http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers/spot/index.shtm
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 7:19 am
  #83  
 
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Originally Posted by DCA TSO
So, I'm out of TSA and I'm out of FT. This is my last post and, au revoir friends, I'm signing off.
Please don't leave. Your posts have been one of the few "from the other side", and have IMHO been well-thought out and informative.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 8:01 am
  #84  
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There is a way to combine them:

"oui oui"



Originally Posted by jonesing
Screener: "Where are you going?"

Passenger: "To take a piss. Why? You wanna hold it?"
Originally Posted by mkt
"Where are you going"

Je ne parle pas anglais.

French, when have you not saved me from conversing with a fool?
Originally Posted by entilzhaFT
If only I knew how to combine the two sentiments.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 8:13 am
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"Where are you going today?"
To a far better place.
WARNING: If you are going to Fort Wayne, IN; Topeka, KS; or Gobe, AZ, you are going to be in trouble because they KNOW you are lying.


"Are you traveling wiht anyone today?"
Allah is my co-pilot.
NOTE: This will be more fun once the FAA starts putting our photos on our pilot's licenses and we can use them for checking in for commercial flghts.


"What is the purpose of your travel?"
(Maurice Lamarche "Brain" voice) To try to take over the world!!


"What gate are you going to?"
The one that will be on CNN an hour from now.



True story: As a broadcast engineer, I travel with a very large, broadcast grade television camera. It goes on your shoulder. I was leaving from Phoenix one day and the very nice older gentleman grabs the large blue Porta-Brace camera bag and says "Sir, this looks like a computer on the X-ray screen, so I'll have to check it by hand. Please come with me over here."

I obediently follow this very nice gentleman.

He puts the thing on the sterile metal table, unzips the bag, opens it and sees the huge television camera inside. Grabbing a cloth circle from the explosive detection machine, he says starts swabbing the camera and bag and ssays "Man, this is a really big camera!"

"You said it, pal."

"What do you do with a camera like this?"

"Porn."

The TSA screener freezes in position, looks at me, looks at the camera, zips up the camera bag, hands it to me and says "enjoy your flight!"

--PP
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 8:18 am
  #86  
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Originally Posted by gfunkdave
There is a way to combine them:

"oui oui"

ROFLMAO!!!! ^^^
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 8:40 am
  #87  
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Originally Posted by VideoPaul
"Porn."

The TSA screener freezes in position, looks at me, looks at the camera, zips up the camera bag, hands it to me and says "enjoy your flight!"
That makes me think of another tack for the "Where are you going?" question. Just tell them exactly what you are going to do with your partner when you get home, in detail.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 9:26 am
  #88  
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Originally Posted by polonius
Have a look at the Abdulallah Higazy case and others -- the tactic is to badger a suspect until they say something that can be used to charge them with "lying to a federal officer". They interrogate in tag-team fashion -- one will ask, "what time did you get up this morning?" You answer "six". Two hours later, another interrogator throws in a question, "so, you got up at seven, then what?" You: "I don't know, had a shower, got dressed" FBI: "Aha! Lying to the FBI!" You: "what?" FBI: "Bob, bring the tape in here". Then they play the tape of you earlier saying you got up at six, and then indict you for lying. But, they'll drop the charge, on one condition, you have to become an informant for them. Higazy got lucky because another witness has the courage to speak up and admit his original statement concerning the air traffic radio he found was false. Others have not been so fortunate, and are either serving long sentences, or were kidnapped and taken to Guanatanamo, like Bisher al-Rawi, who was held there for five years because he refused to be an informant, although they knew all along he hadn't done anything wrong himself. If you refuse to answer ANY questions, there is no possibility of being slapped with a trumped up "lying to the FBI" charge.
I just read this article:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...20/DD42073.DTL

It doesn't support your contention that saying, "New York" when you fly to EWR will constitute lying to a federal officer. The FBI was abusive in the Higazy case in that it questioned him without allowing him legal counsel and, of course, the Bush administration has simply ignored the Constitution when it comes to detaining and imprisoning people it doesn't like. However, your contention was both factually and legally inaccurate and completely overstates the stituation (which is bad enough as it is).

It is clear anything you say to a TSO could be used against you, but I am not clear about whether making a false statement to one is in and of itself considered a crime the way making a false statement to an FBI officer is.
I would suspect it is not, but that's a shoot-from-the-hip answer and shouldn't be relied upon. As others have noted, TSOs aren't LEOs.

In any case, it's still wise not to answer anything you are not legally obliged to. Yes, you could be denied entry, but that's better than being charged with a crime and facing the possibility of spending thousands of dollars disproving the allegation, if you even get to a trial.
If you refuse to answer the questions of the DHS Immigration officer (who is a LEO and not a TSO), I guarantee you will not be visiting the U.S. -- that's true of any country.
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 10:46 am
  #89  
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Originally Posted by PTravel
The Bush administration has simply ignored the Constitution when it comes to detaining and imprisoning people it doesn't like.
Which portions have been ignored, if I may ask?

Best, Dave
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Old Aug 10, 2007, 10:58 am
  #90  
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Originally Posted by bseller
Which portions have been ignored, if I may ask?

Best, Dave
The 1st, 4th, 5th and 8th Amendments, for starters. However, you don't have to take my word for it. The Supreme Court has, on at least two occasions, instructed the Bush administration that such actions as holding military tribunals and blocking law suits by detainees violated the constitution.
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