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TSA: How Do Those Shoulder-Fired Missiles Work, Again?

TSA: How Do Those Shoulder-Fired Missiles Work, Again?

Old Aug 4, 07, 10:28 pm
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TSA: How Do Those Shoulder-Fired Missiles Work, Again?

Wired News - Aug 1, 2007

It would appear that four years after the U.S. government started assessing the vulnerability of key airports to the threat of man portable air defense systems, so-called MANPADS, the work is far from done. Or that seems to be the rational behind a request for automated software that will help the Transportation Security Administration calculate the "footprint" of weapons that could threaten aircraft at key airports.

As the solicitation notes: "Since 2003, the Security Assessments Team has been conducting MANPADS Assessments domestically and abroad with limited technical support. The Security Assessments Team has always lacked the use of software that would identify and analyze a specific threat area while interactively considering all the significant parameters of a successful attack on a commercial aircraft."

Well, it's now mid-2007 -- no time like the present to get some help.
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Old Aug 4, 07, 11:13 pm
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Forget MANPADS, it seems to me the real threat is from .50 cal guns.

http://www.50caliberterror.com/index2.html

The .50 Caliber Sniper Rifle puts us all at risk whenever we fly an airplane.

These powerful sniper rifles which were designed for the battlefield to puncture armor and destroy targets from long range are easier to get than a handgun.

Why should we be spending billions of dollars on homeland security when a terrorist can buy a sniper rifle that can shoot armor piercing bullets up to 2000 yards with great accuracy?

Why do we permit the sale of a weapon that is powerful enough to threaten civilian airplanes taxiing on the runway or during landing and takeoff?

Your safety is at stake because these weapons are so readily available.

.50 Caliber sniper rifles are a terrorist’s dream considering the death and destruction they could inflict.

Facts on .50 Caliber Sniper Rifles
http://www.vpc.org/50caliber.htm

.50 Caliber Sniper Rifles were designed to attack parked or landing aircraft, armored personnel carriers, rail tank cars, bulk fuel storage, and concrete bunkers.

.50 Caliber sniper rifles are powerful enough to puncture armored limousines and can be used as tools for assassination.

.50 Caliber Sniper Rifles have effective ranges up to 2,000 yards, or in other words, 20 football fields laid end to end. Deer hunters generally shoot at ranges of 150 to 200 yards.

Osama bin Laden’s Al-Qaeda network bought 25 Barrett .50 Caliber sniper rifles in the late 1980s.

.50 Caliber ammunition is the largest round available on the civilian market and highly destructive armor-piercing, incendiary, and explosive rounds are easily available.
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Old Aug 4, 07, 11:29 pm
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Originally Posted by DCA TSO View Post
Forget MANPADS, it seems to me the real threat is from .50 cal guns.

http://www.50caliberterror.com/index2.html
Wow, there are so many half truths and inaccuracies in that post I don't even know where to begin.
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Old Aug 4, 07, 11:41 pm
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Doesn't it require a lot more skill to shoot a rifle from a long distance than to fire a MANPADS which has all of the brains and skills needed in the missile itself (aside from the mechanical ability to point the thing in the right direction and fire it).
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Old Aug 5, 07, 12:42 am
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Originally Posted by jwillett13 View Post
Wow, there are so many half truths and inaccuracies in that post I don't even know where to begin.
I agree 100%. Anyone stupid enough using a .50 cal sniper rifle to try to bring down an airliner will be caught very quickly.

It's hard enough to shoot a slow moving target with such a high caliber weapon, that to imagine trying to hit something as fast as jet would be pure random luck.

It's the hysteria against the .50 cal is what creates the FUD.
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Old Aug 5, 07, 1:10 am
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Originally Posted by jwillett13 View Post
Wow, there are so many half truths and inaccuracies in that post I don't even know where to begin.
More inaccuracies from experts quoted below:

http://www.ourjerusalem.com/opinion/...n20030122.html

"Any hunting rifle is dangerous to an airplane, but a fifty-caliber would be much more effective," says Ken Cooper, a firearms expert who trains law enforcement and security officials in Kingston, New York. Gal Luft, a former lieutenant colonel in the Israeli army and co-director of the Washington-based Institute for the Analysis of Global Security, calls the .50-caliber "lethal against slow-moving planes." Both experts agree that a plane taking off would be most vulnerable to the guns."

Last edited by DCA TSO; Aug 5, 07 at 1:20 am
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Old Aug 5, 07, 1:23 am
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Originally Posted by DCA TSO View Post
Forget MANPADS, it seems to me the real threat is from .50 cal guns.

http://www.50caliberterror.com/index2.html
The rifles are also much cheaper than MANPADS. So why doesn't our government (and pretty much every other government) use .50 cal rifles instead of MANPADs?

I'm pro-gun control ("the right to bear arms": why doesn't the NRA support my right to MANPADS? The 2nd amendment makes no distinction), but give me a break.
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Old Aug 5, 07, 1:35 am
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Originally Posted by ralfp View Post
The rifles are also much cheaper than MANPADS. So why doesn't our government (and pretty much every other government) use .50 cal rifles instead of MANPADs?

I'm pro-gun control ("the right to bear arms": why doesn't the NRA support my right to MANPADS? The 2nd amendment makes no distinction), but give me a break.
This will be the one good thing about a [deleted so as to not violate Hatch Act] Presidency, the shutting down of these gun nuts, Randy Weaver types, out there at gun shows selling anything to anyone.
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Old Aug 5, 07, 2:41 am
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Originally Posted by DCA TSO View Post
More inaccuracies from experts quoted below:

http://www.ourjerusalem.com/opinion/...n20030122.html
I cant tell if you are serious or sarcastic but that article is another half truth Micheal Moore kinda story. Sure a .50 can be dangerous to aircraft if I have six of them linked together and fully automatic, just like in WWII. That article eludes to make the reader believe that one shot could down an aircraft...maybe if you were able to take out both cockpit crewmembers with one shot (something that only someone like Carlos Hathcock would be capable off.)

Furthermore, one cannot just buy anything on a whim at a gun show. There are still rules and regulations that a firearm dealer still must follow. And of course rules and laws are only for honest people. If someone has the desire to obtain something, they will find a way.

Last edited by jwillett13; Aug 5, 07 at 3:01 am
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Old Aug 5, 07, 7:43 am
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One of the posters in this sounds sounds like the MSM has done its job of brainwashing on the subject of firearms. To get back to the original subject of the thread, a buddy of Kippie or Chertoff must have some software for sale. I can see it now - no bid procedure, splashy press release about this killer app that will identify the airports at risk for MANPADS, finally two years later a story buried in the back pages that an audit has revealed TSA never implemented the software. Our tax dollars at work.
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Old Aug 5, 07, 7:59 am
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The TSA .50 caliber talk is just more fear-mongering to inflate their budget and increase their "responsibilities". Politics at its worst.
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Old Aug 5, 07, 11:01 am
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Somebody should tell the TSA that an RPG is the bad guys' weapon of choice.

I have some experience in software RFPs, and I have no idea from the quote what this phantom system is supposed to do. Are they looking for tracking and intercept capability (good luck with that !) or just some kind of airport analysis ? I can have an Excel spreadsheet for you next week - cost you $2M.
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Old Aug 5, 07, 11:50 am
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Originally Posted by essxjay View Post
It would appear that four years after the U.S. government started assessing the vulnerability of key airports to the threat of man portable air defense systems, so-called MANPADS, the work is far from done. Or that seems to be the rational behind a request for automated software that will help the Transportation Security Administration calculate the "footprint" of weapons that could threaten aircraft at key airports.

Don't the manufacturers of our own MANPADS already possess such information? Perhaps they refuse to share the info with TSA because it's SSI?
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Old Aug 5, 07, 12:20 pm
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Originally Posted by PatrickHenry1775 View Post
...finally two years later a story buried in the back pages that an audit has revealed ...
Ah, but there are no more back pages anymore. The upside to the free-for-all that is the Web has seen to that.

Last edited by essxjay; Aug 5, 07 at 8:21 pm
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Old Aug 5, 07, 1:22 pm
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I fear the terrorists will train suicidal birds to fly into the airplane engines far more than terrorists with .22 cal, .50 cal, 20 mm. 40 mm, missiles, huge darts or gigantic slingshots. More wasteful crap from the pols.

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