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US seeks to calm EU fears on sharing air passenger details

US seeks to calm EU fears on sharing air passenger details

Old May 13, 07, 12:37 am
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US seeks to calm EU fears on sharing air passenger details

FT.com article

Michael Chertoff, the US homeland security secretary, will attempt next week to assuage European concerns about a system that requires airlines to share passenger information with the US authorities.

He will on Monday meet the European parliament's civil liberties committee in Brussels to discuss terrorism-related issues, including the passenger name record (PNR) system. This is used by airlines to co-ordinate passenger information but the US Department of Homeland Security has sought to collect PNR details to aid its anti-terrorism work.

PNR details can include names, addresses, telephone numbers, e-mail addresses, and passport and credit-card details, and its use in the Homeland Security programme has angered some privacy advocates.

In an interview, Mr Chertoff stressed that he wanted to explain why the US believed that the data-sharing arrangement was crucial to fighting terrorism. He intends to provide examples of cases in which the PNR system has helped prevent suspected terrorists from entering the US.
Crucial to your demonic assault on civil liberties you effing sack of ballast.

"I want to educate them as to the value of this to us," he said. "This should not be a discussion that takes place in a vacuum but it should be one of very specifically how this information is a value and has resulted in our being able to turn away people who would be dangerous to this country . . . I may not persuade them that the upside outweighs the downside, but at least they will understand there is a very upside."
Sickening. Absolutely sickening.
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Old May 13, 07, 1:13 am
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Originally Posted by Chertoff
I want to educate them as to the value of this to us,
"Me, me, me. I want it all."

Chertoff would have found a good home in Stalin's USSR; Comrade Chertoff probably would have gotten promoted up to the Politburo in quick order.
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Old May 13, 07, 2:42 am
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It is a shame that the FT didn't run the story earlier as I would have liked to have emailed members of the commitee with some questions for him.
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Old May 13, 07, 3:01 am
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Originally Posted by Michael Chertoff
Mr Chertoff said the US was willing to compromise on some issues, including the current requirement to store data for 40 years.
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Old May 13, 07, 5:46 am
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Originally Posted by Falco Peregrinus View Post
Originally Posted by Michael Chertoff
Mr Chertoff said the US was willing to compromise on some issues, including the current requirement to store data for 40 years.
I presume that DHS figures that potential terrorists either won't live for more than 40 years or will have exhausted their enthusiasm for terrorism in that time period.
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Old May 13, 07, 9:59 am
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No, I think it's the other way round. It could take up to 40 years for someone to decide to become a terrorist. That way if your fingerprints are found in a terrorist camp in 40 years time, they still know who you are.
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Old May 13, 07, 1:58 pm
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Originally Posted by Markie View Post
No, I think it's the other way round. It could take up to 40 years for someone to decide to become a terrorist. That way if your fingerprints are found in a terrorist camp in 40 years time, they still know who you are.
Naw, it's because it takes 40 years for the US authorities to catch you after you've committed a terrorist act.

As for the article - how long will it be before some spammer gets hold of the list

Or worse still some ID thief. That will go down in Europe like a lead balloon
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Old May 14, 07, 1:36 am
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Originally Posted by Markie View Post
It is a shame that the FT didn't run the story earlier as I would have liked to have emailed members of the commitee with some questions for him.
OMNI to Markie: Actually, FT has been a very good source of such information. It's me who's been slacking on the reporting front -- and I get home delivery!
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Old May 14, 07, 6:09 am
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In an interview, Mr Chertoff stressed that he wanted to explain why the US believed that the data-sharing arrangement was crucial to fighting terrorism. He intends to provide examples of cases in which the PNR system has helped prevent suspected terrorists from entering the US.
We're all ears, Mikey....

(How much you want to bet he cites Cat Stevens as an example?)
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Old May 14, 07, 12:19 pm
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Chertoff putting on his own (lower-key version of a) Powell-at-the-UN presentation? Never. Never. Never.

Shuksters working for DHS, DOJ and some other alphabet agencies come front and center.
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Old May 14, 07, 1:08 pm
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much View Post
In an interview, Mr Chertoff stressed that he wanted to explain why the US believed that the data-sharing arrangement was crucial to fighting terrorism. He intends to provide examples of cases in which the PNR system has helped prevent suspected terrorists from entering the US.
We're all ears, Mikey....

(How much you want to bet he cites Cat Stevens as an example?)
You know what's just struck me, FW2M? The bit in bold where, "he intends to provide examples [that have] helped prevent ..."

Whoa! This has already been done? By what mandate?? And now, by "coming clean," he's trying to persaude other world leaders that there's nothing objectionable to running around the globe, hamstringing every airliner in the world with this "information please, or else" tactic. This is SICK.


Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Chertoff putting on his own (lower-key version of a) Powell-at-the-UN presentation? Never. Never. Never.

Shuksters working for DHS, DOJ and some other alphabet agencies come front and center.
"Shuksters" puts it mildly.

Last edited by essxjay; May 16, 07 at 5:06 am
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Old May 15, 07, 1:21 am
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This is the same guy who is responsible for the Dept who lost the Hard drive with Employee data right???!!

Gosh and he thinks WE should TRUST him - you have to be kidding
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Old May 15, 07, 4:02 am
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It gets worse...

Now there's a suggestion being made that visitors might have to fill in an on-line form (sounds like an electronic equivalent of the visa form) 48 hours before leaving for the US!

From today's Times... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1790514.ece

Visitors to US must fill in online form

Visitors to the United States will have to fill in an online form 48 hours before travelling under proposals to tighten up security in the wake of terrorism plots (David Charter writes).

Although no visa is required for short-stay tourists from Britain and 26 other countries, the US authorities want extra time to check details currently provided upon arrival on a paper visa waiver form or sent electronically by airlines as the flight is about to depart.

The online form is expected to ask whether the visitor has a communicable disease or has ever taken part in “genocide, espionage, sabotage or terrorist activity”.

Visa waiver applicants are also asked whether they are drug abusers, have a physical or mental disorder or whether they have been arrested or convicted for an offence involving moral turpitude or a controlled substance.

Michael Chertoff, the US Homeland Security Secretary, told a meeting in Brussels that details of the system had yet to be agreed by Congress.
Andy
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Old May 15, 07, 4:49 am
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That should do away with quite a bit of last minute business travel. Good job Sir just keep that up and the US dollar will depreciate even more!!

Hey was the US not THE country preaching freedom and democracy to the world??? These guys have gotten so full of it - they are no better than some african dictator. In this case maybe I should tell the gent to just shut up since he is not longer qualified to teach ANYONE about freedonm and democracy!
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Old May 15, 07, 9:50 am
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I want to educate them...
Chertoff, you pompous ... ! The Europeans do not need to be "educated" about terrorism; a rudimentary knowledge of Foreign Affairs should tell you this.

Blair may be Bush's lapdog, but the other nations can certainly think for themselves. I hope they run you out of town on a rail. Tar and feathers optional.
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