Originally Posted by FLYaway3x (Post 7459408)

Actually, I have been to MANY of those countries... The ones I haven't been to I cannot travel to because of either my religion or my Israeli stamps in my passport (if I am traveling on my main passport which has Visas in it which I need).

That being said, even with the second passport I have, I assure you that even an American with the last name ending in -Stein -Berg -Witz will cause your journey to be much less enjoyable.

A prime example is a friend of mine, the CEO of a company with a supplier in Dubai LOATHES his travel there as although he is a non-practicing Jew who has never been to Israel he nevertheless gets the third degree even though he travels to/from Dubai on the JFK-Emirates route in First Class every 2-3 months. He thinks the people there are the tops and it is a lovely place, but for some reason an idiotic policy made by a bureaucrat to stick it to Jews makes travel to there a pain. The same is not true in Israel where such policies create a significant financial hardship and it would be fabulous if they could be dropped tomorrow.

I should mention I have had the above problem in many of those countries I have listed (even when traveling on a second passport) and I simply refuse to travel to others such as Saudi Arabia.

Now as for regular countries, I find immigration to be downright intimidating in Italy, and I don't understand their need for big, big guns in their airports. Nevertheless, I love Italy and go there as often as I can. The French seem to adopt security policies at random. As for the Germans, I don't know about you but I don't like to be touched at least twice when I am trying to get to my flight at 6am. The Chinese seem to have no regard for visitors to their country, being authoritarian in their immigration policies. I could go on and on, but my point is we can talk about security till we are blue in the face but I won't accept the argument that Israel is the worst airport on earth in this manner because if Israel's neighbor's treated it with a little less anger, then perhaps traveling to the holy land would be easier for us all.

Originally Posted by FLYaway3x

........There seems to be a view that Israelis do this because they are cruel people. They aren't and would like to not have to. Sadly, they must profile to ensure that they can live safely. Such profiling has led to the drastic drop in homicide bombings (with the construction of the West Bank Fence) and the security of El Al.

Originally Posted by FLYaway3x

It is worth mentioning that Hindawi's BRITISH girlfriend, who was pregnant and the stooge for his cowardly attack (he was not present on the flight she took) had less-than-kind words to say of her former fiancé at his most recent parole hearing. Ironically, she was on his "side" in her opinion of Israelis, Israeli Security, and the situation in the Middle East before hand. Needless to say she does thank El Al for saving her life and has had a drastic change in her worldview.

Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 7459611)

UK airport security is a joke too. In some ways, it's the fastest growing joke of "security" of any airport in an OECD country.

Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 7459642)

Where here was that view expressed? The reason that this happens, in Israel or elsewhere, is because people have an easier time treating the "other" differently, especially when in "need" of a knee-jerk response (or series of them). There's still no justification for racist profiling except in the minds of the angry, the scared, the ineffective trapped by impoverished thinking.

Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 7459642)

It's worth noting that the girlfriend was Irish. More importantly, it should be noted that if airport security did its job effectively they ought have found the explosives without the questioning. Her change of heart or her being an apologist for racist profiling is neither a surprise nor a justification for racist profiling except in the minds of the angry, the scared, the ineffective trapped by impoverished thinking.

Originally Posted by FLYaway3x (Post 7459873)

Well that view was expressed when you called it "RACIST Profiling"
That being said, you did call Israeli thinking "angry, scared and ineffective" but then again, haven't seen any Israeli planes hijacked lately.

Originally Posted by FLYaway3x (Post 7459873)

Once again, please refrain from calling it Racist profiling. It is correctly called Racial profiling. You are implying that those who employ it are themselves racists, which casts rather large net.

Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 7459611)

I don't know what you find intimidating about Italian immigration. I've been through there a lot recently, and it's not even one word from them most of the time, unless you are female; and it's generally very quick (other than at exiting Schengen sometimes).

Out of the list of countries you mentioned (and not talking "immigration"), Israeli airport "security" is the most inquisitive.

Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 7458630)

I certainly would never complain about Israeli security...

... because I won't visit a country that treats its guests like the Israelis do.

I'll empty my wallet elsewhere, thanks all the same.

Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 7459947)

I haven't seen any tigers on Israeli planes, either.

Beware specious reasoning and the Magic Rock!

Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 7459947)

But that's the whole point. Attempting to justify these actions does not change what the actions are.

Originally Posted by FLYaway3x (Post 7460293)

2006 - Swiss AG informs public of SAM threat to LY jet

Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 7459947)

I haven't seen any tigers on Israeli planes, either.

Beware specious reasoning and the Magic Rock!

Originally Posted by Gargoyle (Post 7459971)

Certainly makes a lot more sense than the two checkpoint workers at MXP who confiscated Mrs. Gargoyle's empty bottle last week, saying that it was prohibited because she could refill it once inside the terminal (refilling with liquids which were readily available there)... yeah, like she's going to fly ORD-MXP on a 767 with an empty bottle just so she can fill it inside MXP and do something nasty on the little turbo prop down to PSA. I doubt you'll encounter that level of nonsense at TLV.

Originally Posted by FLYaway3x (Post 7459873)

Well that view was expressed when you called it "RACIST Profiling"
That being said, you did call Israeli thinking "angry, scared and ineffective" but then again, haven't seen any Israeli planes hijacked lately.

And it isn't a knee-jerk response when it has a rooted need.
Recent plan to attack El Al plane in Switzerland
Failed SAM attack in Africa
LAX shooting by paranoid limo driver
Hindawi Affair
Is there a common thread in the perpetrators of these attacks?
need I go on?




A thousand apologies (although she has relocated to London according to a recent article).
Airport security did do its job, the decision was made to reexamine Ms. Murphy and thankfully a crisis was averted. All in all it was a success. In any other country, screening stops after security. Obviously there is a need for El Al to do more.

I think you too would have a change of opinion if you loved a person very much yet they were willing to cowardly use you their for killing innocents.

Once again, please refrain from calling it Racist profiling. It is correctly called Racial profiling. You are implying that those who employ it are themselves racists, which casts rather large net.

Originally Posted by Dovster (Post 7460756)

That is, quite honestly, one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever seen on F/T.

There are, literally, hundreds of terrorist attacks attempted in Israel each year. Most never come to fruitition because of the tight security here.

El Al, obviously, is a very tempting target for terrorists but according to the "specious reasoning" you demonstrated in this post there is no real threat to it and hence no reason to disturb poor Spiff with some questions at the airport.

Spiff, we have to live with a lot more Security in Israel than you could possibly conceive of. We are checked when we go into banks, into large restaurants, into major hotels, and sometimes just at routine roadblocks.

Not only do our sons have to serve in the Army, but our daughters do, too. We (men, at least) continue to serve one month each year until our mid-40's. (In my day it was until our early 50's.)

At small rural communities, such as the one I live on, we have a locked gate and 24-hour-per-day guards. Generally it is soldiers doing the guarding but four 4 hours each day it is the residents themselves.

You can sit in some university office and giggle about "Magic Rocks" but we know that our lives, and those of our families, are at stake. We would like to be able to stop this tomorrow but know that we can't -- even if you haven't seen any tigers.

Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 7460811)

Security can be had without racist profiling. But as said before, racist profiling gives comfort to the angry, the scared, the ineffective trapped by impoverished thinking. And to have racist profiling in play requires the dominants in the state apparatus willing to tolerate it.

Originally Posted by Dovster (Post 7460838)

GUWonder, I do not consider myself a racist -- nor even that made-up word you like to use -- "tribalist". (BTW, what does that mean? Do I prefer Navajo to Apache? Zulu to Ashanti? Dan to Levi?)

I also do not consider myself an "ineffective trapped by impoverished thinking".

But guess what? When I am doing guard duty at the gate I mentioned earlier, I am much more apt just to waive through a 70-year-old woman who speaks Hebrew flawlessly than I am a 23-year-old man with an Arabic accent.

But, please, don't let me place real life in the way of your illusions.