No-fly List Checked for Accuracy, Cut
 

By BEVERLEY LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer 3 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration is checking the accuracy of a watch list of suspected terrorists banned from traveling on airliners in the U.S. and will probably cut the list in half, the head of the Transportation Security Administration said Wednesday.

News.yahoo.com

Even cutting the list in half is "nice but not all that meaningful," said Barry Steinhardt, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union. He noted that various estimates of the list's size, which is classified, have ranged from 50,000 to 350,000 names.

"Cutting a list of 350,000 names is not all that impressive," Steinhardt added.


I agree. 5+ years and we finally get a meaningless gesture predicated on un-Secure Flight being used? :mad:

This agency needs to be destroyed!

I think it's great- if they cut the list vertically. Slice up the paper between the first and last names, throw out all the last names, and keep all the first names on the list. That way we'll have a list of hundreds of thousands of first names, putting perhaps 85% of Americans on the list, and bringing the economy to a halt. That might wake up some sheeple.

Divine intervention will be needed for DHS/TSA to get its act together even in this regard. As things stand with these blacklists, this is insufficient.

Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) ended up being slowed down when travelling with his wife "Catherine" Stevens. Apparently, Mr. Cat Stevens, aka Yusuf Islam nowadays, being "blacklisted" of sorts led to Mrs. Cat Stevens being flagged down at US airports too. Couldn't happen to a better guy. ;)

These future "improvements" are being tied to SecureFlight at least in part. And SecureFlight's solution to this issue is to require more ID checks/ID data. :td: :td: No thank you.

SecureFlight and unAmerican blacklists are a waste and should be tossed in favor of allocating resources to better explosives detection.

As I've noted here multiple times, the idiots in charge of blacklist implementation have lead for brains .... and can't necessarily tell apart a woman from a man. Idiots.

DHS is now going on the record and confirming in public that which has been known by those who have paid attention here on FT:

different airlines = different blacklists/blacklist implementation.

Here's another news article on this story, from UPI via the Washington Times:
Review of names likely to halve TSA's no-fly list

Odd timing with the Boston Legal episode from Tuesday.

Seriously?

*yawn*

The Bush administration may be trying to make nice this week on issues like the No-Fly List and illegal wiretapping, but they are hollow gestures that have come too late in the game.

... but did not say how successful such applications were likely to be ...

Looks like they're taking all the Dennis Crane's off the list. :D

Since DHS already admitted that no actual terrorists were on the No Fly List....remind me again why we have this list in the first place?

You'll correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure you meant to say:

"Since DHS already admitted that actual terrorists are kept off the No Fly List....remind me again why we have this list in the first place?"

One explanation: the lunatics run the asylum.

Yes, that's what I meant...so why do we have this list again? Still no supporting answers... :)

To keep the workfare programme alive silly :D :

Actually one of the biggest problems is the way the IT is programmed. As usual politicians believe the answer is in technology and the puter will solve the problem :rolleyes:

As I am having a boring afternoon I thought it may be nice share the yawns :p Here are just some of the systems available and used when compiling the no fly lists, there are I understand more sensitive databases used as well which are not in the public domain, a hit on your name or similar anywhere will cause delays, problems, cock ups and all round frustration!

CLASS (Consular Lookout and Support System) DOS
- Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) makes entries into this database.
- NCIC (see below) is now integrated into CLASS
CCD (Consolidated Consular Database)
- contains SEVIS (see below) data for consulars to access.

NCIC (National Crime Information Center)
- contains criminal record information for police to check when they stop or arrest someone.
- NLETS (National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System)
- above systems contain more than 7 million names, including information from state/local law enforcement agencies (including charges such as "shoplifting," DWI, etc.)

NAILS II (National Automated Immigration Lookout System II) DHS
- NIIS (Nonimmigrant Information System), containing nonimmigrant visa denial information, arrival/departure/overstay (I-94) information.

IBIS (Interagency Border Inspection System)
- ADIS (Arrival Departure Information System)

TECS (US Customs' Treasury Enforcement Communications Systems)

SEVIS (Student and Exchange Visitor Information System)

NSEERS (National Security Entry Exit Registration System)

APIS (Advanced Passenger Information System)

ADIS (Arrival Departure Information System)

IBIS (Interagency Border Inspection System)

IDENT (Automated Biometric Identification System)

CLAIMS 3 (Computer Linked Application Information Management System)

CHIMERA

US VISIT

TAL (Technological Alert List)

Now factor into that lot a very common computer function called SOUNDEX is utilised. Soundex is not a system, it is a function.
example:
SELECT SOUNDEX ('katy'), SOUNDEX ('katie');
this would return a number specific to the pronunciation of katy and a number associated with the pronunciation of katie. in this case each would return "K300" which basically indicates that the two's pronunciation is close.
Now soundex is not a system, it is just an algorithm that compares two strings and their associated characters to a pre-assigned values.

A quick look at a basic overview http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundex would explain to an average 10 year old why this is going to result in an outrageous number of false hits and the Cat Stevens scenario referred to earlier in this thread. :confused:

Sometimes I wonder if security would be improved if we don't spend all the time in the world making useless acronyms and instead of actually paying attention to whose name is actually added to the list!

Someone wants the credit and the money for naming the systems. :eek:

That is so yesterdays news. Any changes or cuts will mean we need new names which of course means a new fee :D

Why the heck do the Stevenses need to fly anyway? Can't they just drive wherever the need to go on their Bridge to Nowhere? ;)

Not to mention that Stevens is a relatively common name among Native Alaskans (no relation to Ted).

Ted could have come out against the list on the basis of his constituents' hassles. But no.

Well, better late than never.

Nothing is ever going to change at TSA/DHS until and unless folks with money and politicians are personally affected repeatedly by the problems.

The most influential folks with money (i.e. campaign contributors) fly in private jets, and the politicians can get special treatment. Ergo, the Kettles will have no impact at all. Mark my words.

He doesn't want me to fly with my carry-on luggage. He probably wants us "carry-on only" travellers blacklisted. :D

There are ways for non-state actors to get people (including state actors and their relatives) blacklisted without even interfacing with the government mandarins. Can't wait to hear that story realized. :D

Any bets on when Alberto Gonzalez & companions will be flagged down at an airport by a blacklist? :D

Yes, see

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2007/01/17/D8MNE7DG0.html

It's a double absurdity -- first, that Cat Stevens was himself on the list in the first place, and then again because of the list's identifying people by a non-unique identifier (first and last name).

As the other have said, the list needs to end, now. Anyone who doubts this needs to re-watch the "60 Minutes" episode in which the woman who ran the list admitted it is full of inaccuracies and intentional omissions of known terrorists, not to mention the well-known problem that it flags everyone with a matching name (like Stevens' wife) to someone on the list.

I'm surprised it hasn't become a frat house pastime.

they have "death pools"... why can't we start a "blacklist pool" ;)

Best done overseas. :D

Take note of this quote:

So, if this is true, all the hulabaloo about this happening and making a difference to the average passenger is just creative sophistry.

Nice.

THe whole story in the WashPost is interesting: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011901649.html