Definition of "zip-top" bag??

Old Nov 9, 2006, 10:44 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by Bart
The whole idea is that you can carry liquids, pastes, gels, lotions, creams and aerosols in containers with volumes not exceeding 3 oz. The total number of containers are limited to what can fit inside a quart sized resealable plastic bag. The dimensions of the bag don't matter; it's the volume that matters. Not all plastic baggie manufacturers use the same physical dimensions.

After a few weeks, I've gotten pretty good at determining how many items will fill a quart-sized bag. I use the concept of "tie goes to the runner" when it comes to allowing the one or two items that don't quite fit inside an already filled bag with an admonishment to the passenger that other airports may not exercise the degree of discretion I've shown.

This is a pretty contentious issue at my airport. Some screening managers are strictly enforcing the TSA guidelines without any wiggle room for discretion and latitude. I had a discussion with my screening manager last night over this very topic. I told him that if I ever allowed a passenger to keep a gun, bomb, grenade, knife or other dangerous item, I expect to be drawn, quartered, hung and shot at dawn. But if I let a mom keep an 8 oz bottle of juice for her child, I don't expect anyone to quibble over that or give me any grief. While putting him on the spot with this remark, he just smiled at me, nodded and then walked away. It was enough to acknowledge an understanding.

The concept of a quart bag limiting the number of containers, and thus ensuring safety of airliners, is laughable. Nothing in this scheme prevents multiple terrorists from complying with the rules, and each having only 3 or 4 3 oz. containers in each quart bag. Once terrorists are on the plane, they could combine the contents of the quart bags to theoretically cause problems.
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Old Nov 10, 2006, 2:55 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by PatrickHenry1775
The concept of a quart bag limiting the number of containers, and thus ensuring safety of airliners, is laughable. Nothing in this scheme prevents multiple terrorists from complying with the rules, and each having only 3 or 4 3 oz. containers in each quart bag. Once terrorists are on the plane, they could combine the contents of the quart bags to theoretically cause problems.
I have very serious doubts that mixing explosives is as simple as that.
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Old Nov 10, 2006, 3:14 am
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Bart
I have very serious doubts that mixing explosives is as simple as that.
Is he necessarily talking about mixing two distinct chemicals, or just mixing (as in pouring) together two like chemicals to get the volume "needed"?

Apparently even the plotters in the UK matter weren't clear what they were doing in this regard.

Regardless, the danger posed by any such alleged plot is less about the mixing airside -- setting aside the mix in the bathroom hysteria -- than the volume pre-mixed and assembled airside. And what that means is that these rules are really stupid and do nothing more than to require an assembly, much the same as even without these rules.
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Old Nov 10, 2006, 8:58 am
  #34  
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What happens if I use a smaller zip-top bag? I do not own any quart-sized bags.
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Old Nov 10, 2006, 9:02 am
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Is he necessarily talking about mixing two distinct chemicals, or just mixing (as in pouring) together two like chemicals to get the volume "needed"?

Apparently even the plotters in the UK matter weren't clear what they were doing in this regard.

Regardless, the danger posed by any such alleged plot is less about the mixing airside -- setting aside the mix in the bathroom hysteria -- than the volume pre-mixed and assembled airside. And what that means is that these rules are really stupid and do nothing more than to require an assembly, much the same as even without these rules.
Commercially produced Kinepaks are as simple as mixing two components. As a binary explosive, each comes in a separate pouch, to be mixed prior to detonation. Larger than 3oz each, but nothing prevents multiple persons from bringing aboard enough to bring down an airliner.
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Old Nov 10, 2006, 9:07 am
  #36  
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Originally Posted by vassilipan
Commercially produced Kinepaks are as simple as mixing two components. As a binary explosive, each comes in a separate pouch, to be mixed prior to detonation. Larger than 3oz each, but nothing prevents multiple persons from bringing aboard enough to bring down an airliner.
So we still have it that:

Originally Posted by GUWonder
these rules are really stupid and do nothing more than to require an assembly, much the same as even without these rules.
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Old Nov 10, 2006, 9:10 am
  #37  
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Originally Posted by DangerMouse
What happens if I use a smaller zip-top bag? I do not own any quart-sized bags.

Just mark it as "1qt"

you should be okay with a smaller bag.
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Old Nov 10, 2006, 9:10 am
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
So we still have it that:Originally Posted by GUWonder
these rules are really stupid and do nothing more than to require an assembly, much the same as even without these rules.
Absolutely. At the risk of triggering FBI sniffer computers, you can check out: http://www.slurryexplosive.com/product/page8.html
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Old Nov 10, 2006, 9:30 am
  #39  
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Originally Posted by vassilipan
Absolutely. At the risk of triggering FBI sniffer computers, you can check out: http://www.slurryexplosive.com/product/page8.html
How about trying to link this to someone on Veep-Creep's staff?
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Old Nov 10, 2006, 9:43 am
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Just go to the grocery/supermarket and buy a carton. They come in yellow, green and generic-colored boxes of 10 to a 100 or so, with brand names like Glad and Hefty. F*rting around with bureaucracies is neither productive nor noble, at best stupid, and the "baggie" is simply one of those modest sacrifices we all make to get through the evolutions which fill our lives. I was far more inconvenienced decades ago when I routinely had to go to the Italian post office to place a long distance call.

After seeing several folks miss a flight, connections and undergo much inconvenience because a silly lady was making a "moral objection" to zip-lock baggies. I'm convinced that her level of selfishness (along with those of many who complain so loudly here) exceeds societal norms and the level acceptable by the angry b*stards in line behind the "protesters". If words could kill, the remarks of several of those angry folk directed at her were deadly.
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Old Nov 10, 2006, 9:57 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by TMOliver
Just go to the grocery/supermarket and buy a carton. They come in yellow, green and generic-colored boxes of 10 to a 100 or so, with brand names like Glad and Hefty. F*rting around with bureaucracies is neither productive nor noble, at best stupid, and the "baggie" is simply one of those modest sacrifices we all make to get through the evolutions which fill our lives. I was far more inconvenienced decades ago when I routinely had to go to the Italian post office to place a long distance call.

After seeing several folks miss a flight, connections and undergo much inconvenience because a silly lady was making a "moral objection" to zip-lock baggies. I'm convinced that her level of selfishness (along with those of many who complain so loudly here) exceeds societal norms and the level acceptable by the angry b*stards in line behind the "protesters". If words could kill, the remarks of several of those angry folk directed at her were deadly.
Compliance with this nonsense without complaint or protest makes surrender monkeys of the accepting. I for one will comply under protest but will not comply in silence; nor will I accept this as being "modest sacrifices". Quiet compliance with this nonsense with nothing in return is not "sacrifice" and it is not modest; it is immodest surrender.
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Old Nov 10, 2006, 10:09 am
  #42  
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Originally Posted by TMOliver
F*rting around with bureaucracies is neither productive nor noble, at best stupid, and the "baggie" is simply one of those modest sacrifices we all make to get through the evolutions which fill our lives.

Accepting the whats thrown at you without questioning is not productive
either. Billions of tax dollars are being wasted behind things that do not serve
the purpose of security.. instead inconvenience innocent people. I'd rather
have those tax $$ spent on something useful.

I would be the last person to hold up the line, but I would not go silent
when I see my time and money is being wasted.
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Old Nov 10, 2006, 10:14 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Is he necessarily talking about mixing two distinct chemicals, or just mixing (as in pouring) together two like chemicals to get the volume "needed"?

Apparently even the plotters in the UK matter weren't clear what they were doing in this regard.

Regardless, the danger posed by any such alleged plot is less about the mixing airside -- setting aside the mix in the bathroom hysteria -- than the volume pre-mixed and assembled airside. And what that means is that these rules are really stupid and do nothing more than to require an assembly, much the same as even without these rules.
I think the missing link between a reasonable procedure and stage act is the ETD. If we are supposedly mitigating the threat, then it stands to reason that we should take more ETD samples of the items we allow through.

I was joking with my supervisors the other night when they were talking about making IED test bags more challenging. My remark: "Who cares about detonators and explosives...it's all about spotting that 3.5 ounce bottle."
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Old Nov 10, 2006, 11:06 am
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Bart
I think the missing link between a reasonable procedure and stage act is the ETD. If we are supposedly mitigating the threat, then it stands to reason that we should take more ETD samples of the items we allow through.

I was joking with my supervisors the other night when they were talking about making IED test bags more challenging. My remark: "Who cares about detonators and explosives...it's all about spotting that 3.5 ounce bottle."
Spot on, from the serious to the laughing stock measures.
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Old Nov 10, 2006, 11:13 am
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Bart
I think the missing link between a reasonable procedure and stage act is the ETD. If we are supposedly mitigating the threat, then it stands to reason that we should take more ETD samples of the items we allow through.

I was joking with my supervisors the other night when they were talking about making IED test bags more challenging. My remark: "Who cares about detonators and explosives...it's all about spotting that 3.5 ounce bottle."
Okay, dumb "I was a history and not a chemistry major" question of the day. What would be the time and cost limitations of creating an X-Ray machine that could detect explosives? Why wasn't this done years ago?

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