Definition of "zip-top" bag??

Old Nov 8, 2006, 12:28 pm
  #16  
 
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Last week at check-in at CDG I presented my 1-quart zip-top bag containing my liquids and gels. They insisted that I put the whole thing into a similar-sized bag with a foldover self-sealing flap which they provided, and told me not to open the bag until I was on the plane. Do you suppose there's any chance that the governments will get together on an international standard? (Kidding!)
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Old Nov 8, 2006, 1:30 pm
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Originally Posted by Fornebufox
Last week at check-in at CDG I presented my 1-quart zip-top bag containing my liquids and gels. They insisted that I put the whole thing into a similar-sized bag with a foldover self-sealing flap which they provided, and told me not to open the bag until I was on the plane. Do you suppose there's any chance that the governments will get together on an international standard? (Kidding!)
That could well be spreading this idiocy to even more places and lead to even more "security harmonization for idiots". Having just been subject to multilateral agreement on this nonsense in the EU-zone, I don't welcome further international harmonization in the "war on liquids".
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Old Nov 8, 2006, 11:36 pm
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Smile the zip-loc bag saga ... update ...

Originally Posted by pbr6891
I have been using the same bag since the inception of this new rule until tonight in Boston (terminal c)

The bag I use is :
-clear (perfectly transparent)
-it is made of plastic, (it's flexible, it's not hard)
-it's quart size (it's rectangular , not square shaped),
-it has a zip on top
-it is not a freezer/food type bag (think of it as a transparent pouch
see http://www.containerstore.com/browse...2&PRODID=63319 )

When it went through the xray (in plain view on top of my coat) the TSA agent picked it up and told me that:
"next time you need to have a zip-top bag"
to which I responded by looking puzzled ....
which triggered the additionnal statement ....
"it needs to be a zip-top bag, sir, there is a reason for that ..."

To which I didn't reply.... although while I was picking my stuff down the line I asked another TSA agent about what was wrong about my plastic bag (still in plain view) .... I made it clear I was just looking for an explanation , not arguing ... to which the only thing he had to say was "I don't make the rules, how do you know it's quart size bag"
(which I answered by "because that's what was on the sticker when I bought it for this purpose")

Again before I risk an opinion / comment about this what I am looking for is the official set of fine print specifying the "bag" .....

The only thing I can find on the TSA web site is :

All liquids, gels and aerosols must be placed in a single, quart-size, zip-top, clear plastic bag. Gallon size bags or bags that are not zip-top such as fold-over sandwich bags are not allowed. Each traveler can use only one, quart-size, zip-top, clear plastic bag.

Anyone out there knows anything else ?

Any specification on plastic material ? thickness ? metal/plastic zipper ?

Thanks !
Ok so since the incident in Boston I have gone through 2 security checkpoints with the same bag ... anyone want to guess what happened ?

ORD, Term 1, Priority lane : no problems, no comments,

DFW, UA terminal : no problems, no comments ....

Actually in DFW because I had time and the agent reminding people of the rules about the bag before the checkpoint seemed good natured I started a discussion to get her opinion ... She sympathized and shrugged when I told her what happened , she confirmed that my bag looked perfectly compliant to "the rule" which she volunteered to explain:
- quart size so that you cant carry large quantity
- transparent so that they can see what is inside
- bag so they can feel the content inside
- zipped so that it is somewhat leak proof during the examination

All in all pretty reasonnable and understandable concepts (even if you don't agree with the whole bag thing altogether)

She did add that "every airport is kind of having their own rules" ....

I had to catch my plane so I thanked her for being helpful and courteous...

I also got sympathy from other passengers around that heard the story and the explanations....

The "varying rules" is not surprising but it is still disturbing (even more so in quasi law enforcement/security settings) ... it's not like TSA is a state gov agency ... it's a federal agency so I would expect either complete uniformity nationwide or specific approved/documented exceptions (I can't find anything published about that ...) .. but not this "my own rule" approach to things ...

Am i being unreasonnable ?
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Old Nov 9, 2006, 12:06 am
  #19  
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Originally Posted by oldpenny16
To avoid problems, just buy a box of zip top bags!


I think it's a pretty sick living situation where the onus of citizens is to avoid annoying our governemnt when actually it's a citizen's right to not be unduly harassed by government.

When government starts dictating the size and brands of plastic bags acceptable for use in air travel .... :whistle:
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Old Nov 9, 2006, 8:36 am
  #20  
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The whole idea is that you can carry liquids, pastes, gels, lotions, creams and aerosols in containers with volumes not exceeding 3 oz. The total number of containers are limited to what can fit inside a quart sized resealable plastic bag. The dimensions of the bag don't matter; it's the volume that matters. Not all plastic baggie manufacturers use the same physical dimensions.

After a few weeks, I've gotten pretty good at determining how many items will fill a quart-sized bag. I use the concept of "tie goes to the runner" when it comes to allowing the one or two items that don't quite fit inside an already filled bag with an admonishment to the passenger that other airports may not exercise the degree of discretion I've shown.

This is a pretty contentious issue at my airport. Some screening managers are strictly enforcing the TSA guidelines without any wiggle room for discretion and latitude. I had a discussion with my screening manager last night over this very topic. I told him that if I ever allowed a passenger to keep a gun, bomb, grenade, knife or other dangerous item, I expect to be drawn, quartered, hung and shot at dawn. But if I let a mom keep an 8 oz bottle of juice for her child, I don't expect anyone to quibble over that or give me any grief. While putting him on the spot with this remark, he just smiled at me, nodded and then walked away. It was enough to acknowledge an understanding.
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Old Nov 9, 2006, 8:49 am
  #21  
 
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So what happens when I fill my Quart Size baggie with three oz of water not in a tube/container/etc? Just put 3oz of water in the bag. Do they shut down the airport?
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Old Nov 9, 2006, 9:01 am
  #22  
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Originally Posted by iCorpRoadie
So what happens when I fill my Quart Size baggie with three oz of water not in a tube/container/etc? Just put 3oz of water in the bag. Do they shut down the airport?
Yes, and they escort you in hand cuffs... you cannot carry 3oz of WMD (Water)
without a container with a 3oz label.
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Old Nov 9, 2006, 9:51 am
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Originally Posted by cpx
Yes, and they escort you in hand cuffs... you cannot carry 3oz of WMD (Water)
without a container with a 3oz label.
But what If i drink it infront of them? All 3oz of it and then mix it with some Vodka in the lounge?
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Old Nov 9, 2006, 10:12 am
  #24  
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Originally Posted by cpx
Yes, and they escort you in hand cuffs... you cannot carry 3oz of WMD (Water)
without a container with a 3oz label.
Label the bag: "3oz Bag"

Warning: Do not try this at an airport under DHS/TSA watch.
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Old Nov 9, 2006, 10:26 am
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Flying out of LAS tomorrow morning, I could try that. . . ok I will just dream about it tonight.
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Old Nov 9, 2006, 10:55 am
  #26  
 
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TSA-passenger interaction expectations

Originally Posted by Bart
The whole idea is that you can carry liquids, pastes, gels, lotions, creams and aerosols in containers with volumes not exceeding 3 oz. The total number of containers are limited to what can fit inside a quart sized resealable plastic bag. The dimensions of the bag don't matter; it's the volume that matters. Not all plastic baggie manufacturers use the same physical dimensions.

After a few weeks, I've gotten pretty good at determining how many items will fill a quart-sized bag. I use the concept of "tie goes to the runner" when it comes to allowing the one or two items that don't quite fit inside an already filled bag with an admonishment to the passenger that other airports may not exercise the degree of discretion I've shown.

This is a pretty contentious issue at my airport. Some screening managers are strictly enforcing the TSA guidelines without any wiggle room for discretion and latitude. I had a discussion with my screening manager last night over this very topic. I told him that if I ever allowed a passenger to keep a gun, bomb, grenade, knife or other dangerous item, I expect to be drawn, quartered, hung and shot at dawn. But if I let a mom keep an 8 oz bottle of juice for her child, I don't expect anyone to quibble over that or give me any grief. While putting him on the spot with this remark, he just smiled at me, nodded and then walked away. It was enough to acknowledge an understanding.
Bart,
I have read many of your comments with interest and appreciation.
I would like your opinion on the following w/regard to TSA procedures ...
When the TSA agent I encountered in Boston stated :
"next time you need to have a zip-top bag" and then "it needs to be a zip-top bag, sir, there is a reason for that ..."
isn't he supposed to actually state the specific violation of the rule ...(and maybe even expand on the "reason" )

A parallel I would make is that you never get pulled over and written a ticket for "violation of road rules" but actually you will get something very specific like "speeding : 45mph in 35mph zone" (you would actually not even get one that just say "speeding") ...

Bottom line if you lay down an accusation it has to be specific enough to sustain review / scrutiny and merit determination by a judge.

Am i unreasonnable ?
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Old Nov 9, 2006, 11:27 am
  #27  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Label the bag: "3oz Bag"

Warning: Do not try this at an airport under DHS/TSA watch.
but that bag has to be in another zip-top bag with 1qt label
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Old Nov 9, 2006, 11:28 am
  #28  
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Originally Posted by iCorpRoadie
But what If i drink it infront of them? All 3oz of it and then mix it with some Vodka in the lounge?
Sure... I've done that with my water bottles...
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Old Nov 9, 2006, 11:38 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by pbr6891
Bart,
I have read many of your comments with interest and appreciation.
I would like your opinion on the following w/regard to TSA procedures ...
When the TSA agent I encountered in Boston stated :
"next time you need to have a zip-top bag" and then "it needs to be a zip-top bag, sir, there is a reason for that ..."
isn't he supposed to actually state the specific violation of the rule ...(and maybe even expand on the "reason" )

A parallel I would make is that you never get pulled over and written a ticket for "violation of road rules" but actually you will get something very specific like "speeding : 45mph in 35mph zone" (you would actually not even get one that just say "speeding") ...

Bottom line if you lay down an accusation it has to be specific enough to sustain review / scrutiny and merit determination by a judge.

Am i unreasonnable ?
PBR,

Boston is a world unto itself. Anytime I read a complaint on FT about security, I just assume that it is Boston until I read otherwise. TSA employees at Logan tend to be inflexible (except when it comes to making up their own rules), customer unfriendly and inefficient.

On behalf of my hometown, I apologize. I hate the fact that a city with such a rich history and plethora of tourism opportunities treats our visitors like dirt.

Mike
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Old Nov 9, 2006, 12:00 pm
  #30  
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Originally Posted by cpx
but that bag has to be in another zip-top bag with 1qt label
Thank you for the clarification. ^^
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