View Poll Results: Do you agree or disagree with the action undertaken by MKEbound?
Agree
766
75.92%
Disagree
144
14.27%
Neither agree nor disagree
75
7.43%
Not sure
24
2.38%
Voters: 1009. You may not vote on this poll
I was detained at the TSA checkpoint for about 25 minutes today
Sep 26, 2006, 10:18 pm
#121
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Deleted
Last edited by Bart; Jan 5, 2008 at 9:17 am
Sep 26, 2006, 10:25 pm
#122
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Originally Posted by Bart
Are you getting wrapped around the axle on the analogy itself? Well, I won't let you bait me into a topic area already forbidden by the moderator. I agree with you that the OP's statement was not a violation of his right to freedom of expression. If you scroll back, you'll note that I've said this consistently throughout this thread.
Are you sure that the OP's intent was political protest? It's very easy to claim that after the fact. Of course, the word "idiot" is pretty provocative. I think the OP clearly intended to get a rise out of the screeners who would see the bag. I don't credit the OP with having the noble intent of defending a constitutional principle. However, I find it interesting that I am drawing so much fire for using my own extreme example for the sake of illustrating the extent of freedom of expression but not necessarily with the intent of offending anyone. Yet I'm already being called names even if indirectly.
The convenience of debate logic in these forums are interesting. I wonder what the reaction would be if I had never openly identified myself as a TSA employee. I truly believe that many of the disagreements are based on the fact that I've self-disclosed my affiliation with TSA...a sort of "posting while TSO" type of thing. When you look at my first post, I've agreed that the STSO overreacted; the incident should have been handled more professionally; and the OP's actions did not constitute any sort of threat to commercial aviation. However, I also took time to criticize the OP, and because I'm a known LTSO, I'm drawing heat from you and others because of who I am as opposed to the substance of my views. Which, by the way, have been used in other threads as rationalizations to counter my views.
Some of you are so fickle.
Are you sure that the OP's intent was political protest? It's very easy to claim that after the fact. Of course, the word "idiot" is pretty provocative. I think the OP clearly intended to get a rise out of the screeners who would see the bag. I don't credit the OP with having the noble intent of defending a constitutional principle. However, I find it interesting that I am drawing so much fire for using my own extreme example for the sake of illustrating the extent of freedom of expression but not necessarily with the intent of offending anyone. Yet I'm already being called names even if indirectly.
The convenience of debate logic in these forums are interesting. I wonder what the reaction would be if I had never openly identified myself as a TSA employee. I truly believe that many of the disagreements are based on the fact that I've self-disclosed my affiliation with TSA...a sort of "posting while TSO" type of thing. When you look at my first post, I've agreed that the STSO overreacted; the incident should have been handled more professionally; and the OP's actions did not constitute any sort of threat to commercial aviation. However, I also took time to criticize the OP, and because I'm a known LTSO, I'm drawing heat from you and others because of who I am as opposed to the substance of my views. Which, by the way, have been used in other threads as rationalizations to counter my views.
Some of you are so fickle.
Sep 26, 2006, 10:37 pm
#123
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2
Please write your Congressional reps and Senator
Hello everyone.
Please write your congressman and senator. All it takes is a few words and your Senator can be contacted directly through email while you may have to snail mail your Congressman. http://www.senate.gov/reference/comm...t_senators.htm
There are a few things that make me drop everything that I am doing to write my Congressman and Senator and TSA/DHS abuse is one of them.
wlwjr66
Please write your congressman and senator. All it takes is a few words and your Senator can be contacted directly through email while you may have to snail mail your Congressman. http://www.senate.gov/reference/comm...t_senators.htm
There are a few things that make me drop everything that I am doing to write my Congressman and Senator and TSA/DHS abuse is one of them.
wlwjr66
Sep 26, 2006, 10:42 pm
#124
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OP back here again to answer some questions and add some more detail.
First of all, to zusername in post #89: Welcome to Flyertalk!
To wlwjr66 in post #123: Welcome to Flyertalk!
After my adventure in MKE, I wrote my original post on the flight to MSP and just had enough time to log on and post before catching my flight to California. I was a bit surprised that 5 hours later it had so many replies.
To everyone who asked if I got the names of the people involved: I did take down the name and number of the TSA Supervisor and plan on submitting a complaint to TSA.gov
To those who seemed worried I might end up on some secret list, I'm not. I've complained in writing and in person to the TSA over a dozen times; complaining about the shoe carnival, the recent liquid ban, even the hostility I see from front line TSA people and I haven't been SSSS'ed in over a year. I'm a lot more worried I'm just being ignored (like the rest of us)
One of our fellow Flyertalkers has PM'ed me the name of a contact at the ACLU in Wisconsin and I do plan on discussing the incident with him as a next step
First of all, to zusername in post #89: Welcome to Flyertalk!
To wlwjr66 in post #123: Welcome to Flyertalk!
After my adventure in MKE, I wrote my original post on the flight to MSP and just had enough time to log on and post before catching my flight to California. I was a bit surprised that 5 hours later it had so many replies.
To everyone who asked if I got the names of the people involved: I did take down the name and number of the TSA Supervisor and plan on submitting a complaint to TSA.gov
To those who seemed worried I might end up on some secret list, I'm not. I've complained in writing and in person to the TSA over a dozen times; complaining about the shoe carnival, the recent liquid ban, even the hostility I see from front line TSA people and I haven't been SSSS'ed in over a year. I'm a lot more worried I'm just being ignored (like the rest of us)
One of our fellow Flyertalkers has PM'ed me the name of a contact at the ACLU in Wisconsin and I do plan on discussing the incident with him as a next step
Sep 26, 2006, 10:43 pm
#125
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Originally Posted by Bart
My focus was on the incident itself. Yes, the supervisor overreacted and should have been more professional.
My guess is that this incident will go nowhere. The report will go no further than the FSD and be dismissed as a non-incident. Hopefully, the AFSD will look into this and take the approach of telling his STSOs to not let themselves get baited like this. Your solution is to shoot everyone at dawn.
My guess is that this incident will go nowhere. The report will go no further than the FSD and be dismissed as a non-incident. Hopefully, the AFSD will look into this and take the approach of telling his STSOs to not let themselves get baited like this. Your solution is to shoot everyone at dawn.
Slapping on the hands and saying bad boy won't cut it in this situation.
I'm looking at this from the perspective of today, the first day under these procedures, being a very challenging and frustrating day for everyone involved: passengers, screeners, airline managers....everyone. It's not that this is not a big deal to me; I see it as a situation that most certainly could have been handled better, and the AFSD, screening manager or someone in the chain of command needs to approach this particular STSO and guide him back into the right direction.
This guy should be shot at dawn. I think the FSD has a chance to show his underlings that there are consequences for flagrant violations. It might actually enstill some accountability, but I'm not that optimistic.
Super
Sep 26, 2006, 10:44 pm
#126
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Originally Posted by alamedaguy
Nice one. ^ Now I'm particularly upset with my wife for getting the generic nowhere to write easily bags. 
At least everyone involved seems to have known who Kip Hawley is.
Is this a screener you're likely to encounter again? I wonder how that will play out.
At least everyone involved seems to have known who Kip Hawley is.
Is this a screener you're likely to encounter again? I wonder how that will play out.
Sep 26, 2006, 10:47 pm
#127
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Criticism of a public official -- a political appointee at that -- in such a manner as noted in the OP is a form of political protest/expression.
Sep 26, 2006, 10:50 pm
#128
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Originally Posted by Bart
Are you sure that the OP's intent was political protest? It's very easy to claim that after the fact. Of course, the word "idiot" is pretty provocative. I think the OP clearly intended to get a rise out of the screeners who would see the bag. I don't credit the OP with having the noble intent of defending a constitutional principle. However, I find it interesting that I am drawing so much fire for using my own extreme example for the sake of illustrating the extent of freedom of expression but not necessarily with the intent of offending anyone. Yet I'm already being called names even if indirectly.
However, when the Supervisor told my I didn't have any First Amendment rights here (meaning the TSA checkpoint) you can be DAMN sure I was ready to be arrested rather than let that guy think for one minute he had the right to suppress my Constitutional rights.
Sep 26, 2006, 10:54 pm
#129
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Originally Posted by MKEbound
However, when the Supervisor told my I didn't have any First Amendment rights here (meaning the TSA checkpoint) you can be DAMN sure I was ready to be arrested rather than let that guy think for one minute he had the right to suppress my Constitutional rights.
Sep 26, 2006, 10:57 pm
#130
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Last edited by Bart; Jan 5, 2008 at 9:16 am
Sep 26, 2006, 11:00 pm
#131
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Originally Posted by MKEbound
you can be DAMN sure I was ready to be arrested [/B] rather than let that guy think for one minute he had the right to suppress my Constitutional rights.
Sep 26, 2006, 11:03 pm
#132
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I too didn't expect something like this to happen with the TSA at MKE or any other airport in Wisconsin.
Just wait until "SPOT" is in full throttle at airports, for that's a vehicle for a variety of litmus tests to determine treatment at airports. And with "SPOT" interactions, how long until a Constitutionally-protected expression of political opinion results in hostile TSA treatment?
Just wait until "SPOT" is in full throttle at airports, for that's a vehicle for a variety of litmus tests to determine treatment at airports. And with "SPOT" interactions, how long until a Constitutionally-protected expression of political opinion results in hostile TSA treatment?
Sep 26, 2006, 11:07 pm
#133
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Originally Posted by MKEbound
you can be DAMN sure I was ready to be arrested rather than let that guy think for one minute he had the right to suppress my Constitutional rights.
Sep 26, 2006, 11:07 pm
#134
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Originally Posted by ColKurtz
I think what you did is ridiculous and stupid. I think detaining you for about 25 minutes is about what you deserve. Maybe a little too short. I would have preferred they annoy you for a good 45 minutes or so - hopefully making you miss your flight.
Second, and more serious, your sophomoric little stunt distracted the people who are responsible for our security. If someone bent on harming travellers was behind you in line that day, their odds of getting through security were probably much higher than normal -- for the simple fact that you were consuming the attention of several security and police officers.
You said that you think that not only were they in the right to do this, but that they should have done it in an even more extensive and time consuming manner. In other words, you think it was a good idea for them to harass someone for exercising his right to free speech rather than look for threats to aviation security. If someone bent on harming travelers got through, it would be your reasoning that was at fault.
In fact, if you had it your way where all of the TSA screeners and LEOs in the airport hassled anyone who did this kind of thing for an hour, ignoring their actual duties, terrorists would use this method to help sneak things in.
Sep 26, 2006, 11:08 pm
#135
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Last edited by Bart; Jan 5, 2008 at 9:16 am