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I was detained at the TSA checkpoint for about 25 minutes today

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I was detained at the TSA checkpoint for about 25 minutes today

Old Sep 27, 2006, 3:58 pm
  #301  
 
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Originally Posted by MKEbound
I have been contacted by a few reporters and the ACLU, but have not responded to any of them yet, as I plan on giving the TSA some time to respond to my complaint.
Although yours is a noble gesture, I wouldn't wait too long as the TSA may never respond and, even if they do, it may be months from now. It seems to me you should take your story to the press to get wider circulation and put the pressure on the TSA while the iron is still hot, so to speak.
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 3:58 pm
  #302  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Are you saying that the TSA should not be looking for bombs? In any event, bombs and terrorism has little to nothing to do with the OP's situation.

Two questions for you that relate to the OP's experience:

"Are you suggesting that the government read anything and everything in a passenger's possession to see if they are carrying material that doesn't advance the Party Line?"

"Do you want the US government to hassle people for having a different constitutionally-protected political opinion than yours?"

Are you blind? I said they should be looking for everything, not just bombs. As for bombs and terrorism not being part of the OP's situation, you were the one who brought it up. No I do not think the government should read anything and everything in their possession.... Again, he knew they were going to scrutinize the baggie and did it for that sole purpose. We only know his side of the story, but my guess is there was some attitude involved on his part when he was queried about it. He was picking a fight and got what he deserved. Instead of "looking for bombs" like you say they should be, they were dealing with his grade school antics.
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 3:59 pm
  #303  
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Originally Posted by Scifience
And, unfortunately, I don't think you're likely to get much of a response from them. I think talking with the media and the ALCU would increase the likelihood of getting some sort of a meaningful response out of the TSA.
We'll have to see if Senator Feingold is going to come around to stand up for the freedom of political speech at one of his state's airports.

Getting this on the media circuit sooner than later is the best thing to do.
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 3:59 pm
  #304  
 
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Originally Posted by MKEbound
OP back again to answer questions and some updates.

I have been contacted by a few reporters and the ACLU, but have not responded to any of them yet, as I plan on giving the TSA some time to respond to my complaint.
I filed a formal complaint about an abusive screener and supervisor that was blatantly and undeniably violating the TSA's own punblished rules. I called back and talked to a supervisor and was told that I would be called back promptly.

That was August 15th.

Don't hold your breath. Talk to the AP. The TSA wants this to go away and die a quiet death for lack of interest.

--PP
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 4:01 pm
  #305  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder

On the contrary, it's accomplished something: for one, it's highlighted that even in America government harassment for having written words that are legally-protected political opinion does happen. And it shouldn't happen. It also shows that there are still a good number of people in America who will stand up for the freedom of expression protected by the Constitution and that such people are not ready to let the US go the way of the Soviet Union.
So how are his actions really going to make a difference. Sorry, but this is just another thread on FT where someone complains about the TSA. Not much more than that.
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 4:03 pm
  #306  
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Originally Posted by cme2c
Are you blind? I said they should be looking for everything, not just bombs. As for bombs and terrorism not being part of the OP's situation, you were the one who brought it up. No I do not think the government should read anything and everything in their possession.... Again, he knew they were going to scrutinize the baggie and did it for that sole purpose. We only know his side of the story, but my guess is there was some attitude involved on his part when he was queried about it. He was picking a fight and got what he deserved. Instead of "looking for bombs" like you say they should be, they were dealing with his grade school antics.
I'm not blind or I wouldn't be able to readily post here myself or so quickly. I should be amazed that you had to ask such a question, but then again I'm not shocked easily.

If there was "attitude involved" it clearly didn't result in his being issued a citation at the airport. So much for that line of thinking.
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 4:04 pm
  #307  
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Where's my Colgate?

Originally Posted by nathanmcginty
what if they did lose your bag? oh no!! MY TOOTHPASTE IS GONE!!
I politely disagree. I work in a high tech field, on a one day business trip I carry some specialized tools which are no longer allowed in carry on, but must be checked. (pre- 911 I sometimes carried on my entire toolbox dumped in a soft side bag, enough tools to disassemble the plane, plus enough electronics, wires, and batteries that if I sent the same bag thru the xray today they would have the bomb squad blow up my bag. )

If I get to my destination and my checked bag is lost, I have no ability to perform the work function my company sent me there for. Not counting the cost of the items in the lost bag if they never are reunited with me, my time is wasted, my company loses the trip cost, the customer is upset at the delay caused by my inability to do what I was hired to do and might cancel business as a result. Specialized tools and electronics cannot always be bought locally if my company and I decide to replace them. Or stay overnight and have the factory Fedex some replacements to the motel. Either way, costly and bad for business.

This is not a vacation. It's called Business Travel. A need for a specialist and some specialized expensive equipment to arrive at a distant location. Together. Emphasis Together. On a short notice trip, there may not be time to ship equipment ahead of time. Everyone does not have the infinite budget needed to have several spare sets of expensive electronics to be able to ship a duplicate set ahead. Some equipment is fragile or can be damaged or knocked out of calibration by a drop. Think of your laptop--you can hand carry it with no case because you can protect it and be gentle to not break it. If you ship it Fedex, you have to pack it very well. Yet you do not know if it fell off a loading dock and got a big shock causing internal damage during shipping. If you hand carry it, you know it never got dropped, it never left your sight.

Far more consequences to losing a checked bag than missing toothpaste. The entire time and cost of the trip is totally wasted. Even today I max out allowable carry on and check as little as possible. It has nothing to do with the time spent waiting at bag claim. The checked bag showing up is the Go-No Go event of the entire trip, the unknown surprise you don't find out about until the empty bag carosel shuts down in another state or country and you know you just LOST.
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 4:04 pm
  #308  
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Originally Posted by cme2c
So how are his actions really going to make a difference. Sorry, but this is just another thread on FT where someone complains about the TSA. Not much more than that.
We'll see about that. Most complaints about the TSA don't grab anywhere near as much attention so quickly. It certainly doesn't get media and political attention the way this one can (and will if the OP so wishes it).
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 4:07 pm
  #309  
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Originally Posted by cme2c
You really think there will be any corrective action? I would be very surprised if anything came of this. Reason one is that they should already have been trained on a person's rights and it didn't do any good. Number 2, we are hearing one side of this story, my guess is the TSA involved have a different side. This will result in a slap on the wrist at most. Again, accomplishing nothing all because he wanted to "draw" someone into a discussion.
If this was a matter handled entirely by complaining to the TSA via their online forms, then I would agree with you. However, my statement was in response to your claim that "Pursuing this matter with the AP or the ACLU is just another waste of other people's time."

Having public attention on the matter is a much surer way to get results, as many more people are going to be interested and putting pressure on the TSA.
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 4:09 pm
  #310  
 
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Originally Posted by exerda
If this was a matter handled entirely by complaining to the TSA via their online forms, then I would agree with you. However, my statement was in response to your claim that "Pursuing this matter with the AP or the ACLU is just another waste of other people's time."

Having public attention on the matter is a much surer way to get results, as many more people are going to be interested and putting pressure on the TSA.
So the same people who think Hawley is an idiot think that pressure on the TSA is going to have an impact. Plain and simple this boils down to the people they have working for them and their responses in the heat of the moment. You can't change that easily.
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 4:09 pm
  #311  
 
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Some interesting reading

Some light reading on the issue. Sorry if these are already in the thread.

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/rep...top_frisk.html
http://www.papersplease.org/
http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14528res20040730.html

You must show your driver's license and registration when stopped in a car. Otherwise, you don't have to answer any questions if you are detained or arrested, with one important exception. The police may ask for your name if you have been properly detained, and you can be arrested in some states for refusing to give it. If you reasonably fear that your name is incriminating, you can claim the right to remain silent, which may be a defense in case you are arrested anyway.
http://papersplease.org/hiibel/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_...ourt_of_Nevada
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 4:13 pm
  #312  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
I'm not blind or I wouldn't be able to readily post here myself or so quickly. I should be amazed that you had to ask such a question, but then again I'm not shocked easily.

If there was "attitude involved" it clearly didn't result in his being issued a citation at the airport. So much for that line of thinking.
So you should be amazed that I had to ask that, yet you posed a similar stupid question about them not looking for bombs? Get over yourself.
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 4:13 pm
  #313  
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Originally Posted by cme2c
So the same people who think Hawley is an idiot think that pressure on the TSA is going to have an impact. Plain and simple this boils down to the people they have working for them and their responses in the heat of the moment. You can't change that easily.
If the only impact is to get more Americans to value the ACLU and to contribute to it and its mission, that's impact enough in my eyes. Is that a positive for you or do you oppose that?

Originally Posted by cme2c
So you should be amazed that I had to ask that, yet you posed a similar stupid question about them not looking for bombs? Get over yourself.


Now back to the topic, which is not me ....
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 4:18 pm
  #314  
 
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and some state codes research

As of 2004, the following states have stop-and-identify laws on the books:

Alabama Ala. Code 15-5-30
Arkansas Ark. Code Ann. 5-71-213(a)(1)
Colorado Colo. Rev. Stat. 16-3-103(1)
Delaware Del. Code Ann., Tit. 11, 1902(a), 1321(6)
Florida Fla. Stat. 856.021(2)
Georgia Ga. Code Ann. 16-11-36(b)
Illinois Ill. Comp. Stat., ch. 725, 5/107-14
Kansas Kan. Stat. Ann. 22-2402(1)
Louisiana La. Code Crim. Proc. Ann., Art. 215.1(A)
Missouri Mo. Rev. Stat. 84.710(2)
Montana Mont. Code Ann. 46-5-401(2)(a)
Nebraska Neb. Rev. Stat. 29-829
New Hampshire N. H. Rev. Stat. Ann. 594:2 and 644:6
New Mexico N. M. Stat. Ann. 30-22-3
New York N. Y. Crim. Proc. Law 140.50(1)
North Dakota N.D. Cent. Code 29-29-21
Ohio Ohio Rev. Code 2921.29
Rhode Island R. I. Gen. Laws 12-7-1
Utah Utah Code Ann. 77-7-15
Vermont Vt. Stat. Ann., Tit. 24, 1983
Wisconsin Wis. Stat. 968.24
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Old Sep 27, 2006, 4:19 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
If the only impact is to get more Americans to value the ACLU and to contribute to it and its mission, that's impact enough in my eyes. Is that a positive for you or do you oppose that?





Now back to the topic, which is not me ....
Sure it is a positive if it had that impact, but honestly in my eyes if the ACLU took his case I would be disappointed in them.
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