MKEbound

I will be useing the exact same baggie.

GUWonder

There are certainly some here who have greater understanding of the Constitution than I. And there are certainly some here who have greater understanding of the Constitution than you. To state that in fact you have just as much of an understanding of the Constitution as "all of you" strikes me as absurd. I know that I don't have a greater understanding of the Constitution than some FTers, including some who have posted on this thread. Is there something in your prior posts which should make me think otherwise? The "A" in a single class?

Travellin' Fool

So let me ask you. Let's assume that you write "We are all Kip Hawleys sheep", you go through the security and continue on your way. Have you accomplished your mission? Probably not, to your knowledge no one paid any attention.

However if you were to write the same thing on your bag and they pulled you aside, made comments about lack of free speach etc. etc... How could you be upset? You've just made your point, it was heard.

I guess my point being that there seems to be such a big issue of how wrong the TSA acted and how it should have never come to that. But I submit to those that say that: Isn't that the point? The simple fact that this incident has become so popular can be proof that our system does work.

1. Nothing happened to OP except a 25 min delay
2. I am certain that the TSA higher ups are aware of this now
3. Hopefully something will be done

Had nothing happened to the OP, I for one would be scratching my head and wondering if my free speech is actually heard. Hope that makes sense...

GUWonder

I have made no assumption that MKEbound's word is the absolute truth. So your argument above fails.

I have relied upon an assumption that, in the absence of verifiable evidence to the contrary, a first hand account from the OP is more likely to be reliable than a statement from DHS/TSA HQ. If you can show that assumption to be patently false, your argument would have a bit more merit (in that while my critical thinking would be formally correct my conclusion would be invalid).

hoyateach

I can see where you're coming from. To respond to the section I bolded, I'd be upset because my Constitutionally-protected right to free expression was being challenged by goverment agents (and by "agents" I don't mean the FBI per se, but rather employees acting on the government's behalf). Am I hoping this will happen? Hell, no. But I am willing to test the system to see what does happen.

My hope is that I'm ignored or, at worst, get a questioning look. I don't want to be delayed but I certainly don't have any problem being part of a growing chorus of disgruntlement.

GUWonder

Are you making the argument that the OP should be happy whether he is picked on or not for having in his possession constitutionally-protected political writings on a bag? Even if that were the case (of "equal" satisfaction regardless of outcome), it does not change the fact that the government should not be hassling people at airports on the basis of which constitutionally-protected writings are in their possession.

sonofzeus

Care to share whether you've talked with the ACLU??

2smrt4u

So are you trying to get me to tell you my GPA now so that you can continue bashing?

Travellin' Fool

I am making the argument that he should not be upset if he does get picked on for writing things on his bag.

Apologies if I didn't explain my viewpoint clear enough. I am not saying equal satisfaction regardless of outcome. I am saying the OP seems (from my knowledge of events) to have much more significantly made a point with the current outcome.

I agree. I'm just saying that, whether right or wrong, I pretty much expect the hassle.

2smrt4u

A biased first hand account. Given that neither you nor I probably know MKEBound personally an attempt to state that he would be more reliable is quite a stretch. Just because he says it's true and they aren't providing evidence that it isn't, it must be true?

Pakse

Howdy,

Just wanted to say "Thank you" to the OP. I believe in America, I believe in free speech and strongly believe the strength of America lies in her ability to allow free speech. In times like these; many people become afraid and a lone voice rising up in a clear voice can provide a beacon of light for those who through fear have put their heads down.

I challenge anyone the next time they pass through security to see if a fair number of people pass through the checkpoint with an air of dejection, resignation and fear. I am saddened anytime I see the innocent beaten down by the oppression of authority.

This is no different than a school-yard bully; the TSA push people around because they can. That is power that corrupts.

That being said, we need the TSA. I need the TSA. Someone has to try to keep us safe up there. I do agree they are more of a dog-and-pony show than effective security barrier - but I have no idea how to fix it. And quite frankly, until it's fixed - we need the TSA badly. I'm not flying without security.

Regarding this thread and the OP's post - he did the right thing. He had the courage to take a stand. He took a stand in a lawful, reasonable way. He was unfairly penalized for it. For that, I am sorry. For his actions - I commend him.

Keep the faith,

Pakse

GUWonder

The ACLU's two legislative counsels (and one other) have sent a joint-letter involving the matter. I would say so.

MKEbound

Yes, check out post #1184

Also, if anyone want to go back to the original first post I've added some links at the bottom to some of the important follow up posts.

sonofzeus

TVM. Although Evelyn Wood is my friend, I confess I haven't read every post in this thread.

You are a patriot. Vaya con dios.

Travellin' Fool

How exactly was he penalized? He was hassled a bit but not anywhere near any seriousness. I just don't understand how he was a martyr for free speech so please stop making him look like some sort of hero standing up for the downtrodden. As I've said before, I think it was a funny prank and I'd do the same thing, but to compare it to some revolutionary stand... i think not.