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-   -   FA duties/passenger responsibility (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/528712-fa-duties-passenger-responsibility.html)

hillrider Feb 21, 2006 11:34 pm

Do the right thing!
 
You should do your duty and report it to the FAA as a violation of a Federal Aviation Regulation (FAR). They're available 24 hours a day at 1-866-TELL-FAA (1-866-835-5322) or in writing at Federal Aviation Administration | Consumer Hotline, AOA-20 | 800 Independence Avenue, SW | Washington, DC 20591.

Specifically, FAR § 121.589 (Carry-on baggage) states:

(c) No certificate holder may allow an airplane to take off or land unless each article of baggage is stowed:

(1) In a suitable closet or baggage or cargo stowage compartment placarded for its maximum weight and providing proper restraint for all baggage or cargo stowed within, and in a manner that does not hinder the possible use of any emergency equipment; or

(2) As provided in §121.285 (c) and (d); or

(3) Under a passenger seat.
You witnessed carry-on baggage too large to fit under a passenger seat and therefore in violation of 121.589(c).

This is no light violation. In case of an accident, given the forces involved, an inproperly restrained carry-on can (and has) killed passengers.

azmmza Feb 22, 2006 1:20 am


Originally Posted by hillrider
You should do your duty and report it to the FAA as a violation of a Federal Aviation Regulation (FAR). They're available 24 hours a day at 1-866-TELL-FAA (1-866-835-5322) or in writing at Federal Aviation Administration | Consumer Hotline, AOA-20 | 800 Independence Avenue, SW | Washington, DC 20591.

Specifically, FAR § 121.589 (Carry-on baggage) states:
You witnessed carry-on baggage too large to fit under a passenger seat and therefore in violation of 121.589(c).

This is no light violation. In case of an accident, given the forces involved, an inproperly restrained carry-on can (and has) killed passengers.

where did you look this up?

mvoight Feb 22, 2006 3:49 am


Originally Posted by deac83
I'm sure many FA's would not make a big deal about it, but 'reporting' someone else with a bag that needs to be put up is a bit like telling someone they didn't do their job (obviously mistakes happen) and not everyone would take as well as you would.

And I hate to say it, if the person in 4B wants to endanger themself that's one thing but there was a military upgrade in 4A who would have been the inocent victum in an emergency.

If it didn't concern the military person, it wouldn't concern me.
If it is not an exit row, and it isn't blocking me, then I would let probably let the person it would affect address the issue.

mvoight Feb 22, 2006 3:53 am


Originally Posted by Truck Guy
I watched a couple today park their butts at the gate door this morning at ORD waiting to board a flight to MSP. They just had to be first on the plane and I could see why.
Two large bags each :rolleyes:

I was in 4B if F cabin, they were in 3E and 3F on the bulkhead. I was the 5th person to board, or was trying to board. I was stuck at the door waiting for Mr. 3E and Mrs. 3F to stuff all of their luggage in two whole overheads on the right side. Even though these bins are deeper, they insisted on putting the rollerboards in sideways. And then 1/2 the second bin was used for the guys hat and scarf. :mad:

Talk about inconsiderate bozos. I'm really starting to hate selfish people like that. I was glad I was on the other side of the aisle.


AEpilot76 Feb 22, 2006 9:58 am


Originally Posted by hillrider
You should do your duty and report it to the FAA as a violation of a Federal Aviation Regulation (FAR). They're available 24 hours a day at 1-866-TELL-FAA (1-866-835-5322) or in writing at Federal Aviation Administration | Consumer Hotline, AOA-20 | 800 Independence Avenue, SW | Washington, DC 20591.

Specifically, FAR § 121.589 (Carry-on baggage) states:
You witnessed carry-on baggage too large to fit under a passenger seat and therefore in violation of 121.589(c).

This is no light violation. In case of an accident, given the forces involved, an inproperly restrained carry-on can (and has) killed passengers.


Yeah, and while you're at it, why not tell them about the flight attendants not being "at their duty stations" at all times during the taxi or that below 10.000ft the pilots were talking about something non-safety related. Cmon, we all know the FAA isnt going to care about a carry on not being properly stowed. And even if they did care, it would take them about 20 years to do something about it.

DCA Blondie Feb 22, 2006 11:50 am


Originally Posted by deac83
I'm sure many FA's would not make a big deal about it, but 'reporting' someone else with a bag that needs to be put up is a bit like telling someone they didn't do their job (obviously mistakes happen) and not everyone would take as well as you would.

And I hate to say it, if the person in 4B wants to endanger themself that's one thing but there was a military upgrade in 4A who would have been the inocent victum in an emergency.

You can look at it as "reporting" someone, but if you say it nice enough (and add a touch o' Southern to your accent :) ) you will probably be percieved as helpful, not reporting. (And, who cares if the FA thinks you were reporting her? It is you that has to trip over the bags to egress, anyway! Not her...she'll be screaming at you at the door telling you to "get out!") And, if someone asked for help with a bag, I would not think they were telling me how to do my job.....really. My goal at that particular moment is to get everything put away, so I can close the door.


Originally Posted by JDiver
We can't get anything over on you... Dang, Blondie, next you'll be working with US Customs and Border Protection!

Naaaahhh....there'd be national concern about giving me a badge and handcuffs!! ;)

TWA Guy Feb 22, 2006 1:55 pm

Should I report this - I was in the exit row window and the woman in the exit row aisle seat (a) spoke no English and (b) did not walk well (hence why her niece or daughter asked me to sit in the window even though the window seat wasn't hers to begin with - long story). In case of an emergency I would have been the first one out, no problem. The flight was running late so the FAs did not do the "you're sitting in an exit row do you understand your job" check. Knock on wood, nothing happened on the flight, but isn't this a clear violation of the FARs as well?

hillrider Feb 22, 2006 5:11 pm


Originally Posted by AEpilot76
the flight attendants not being "at their duty stations" at all times during the taxi

And what is that a violation of???

AEpilot76 Feb 22, 2006 5:23 pm


Originally Posted by hillrider
And what is that a violation of???

It's a violation of some FAR...I believe in 121

it's 121.391, i just looked it up for you

(d) During takeoff and landing, flight attendants required by this section shall be located as near as practicable to required floor level exists and shall be uniformly distributed throughout the airplane in order to provide the most effective egress of passengers in event of an emergency evacuation. During taxi, flight attendants required by this section must remain at their duty stations with safety belts and shoulder harnesses fastened except to perform duties related to the safety of the airplane and its occupants.

deac83 Feb 22, 2006 7:21 pm

Not worried about FA helping me with a bag, just getting the person across the aisle who is selfish by violating safety standards.

Obviously they closed the door with the bag not under the seat and this was bag that was too big to fit under the seat so not someone trying to hide their briefcase.

Sorry to say it had been a long day with little sleep so the odds of my 'reporting' coming off as helpful would not be good.

Actually I don't think you report this unless you know it to be a repeat problem (i.e. you say something at take off and then the same thing happens at landing), given that most people are not perfect. Or if the FA had a bunch of attitude about it that might earn a note to AA.


In case of an emergency I would have been the first one out, no problem.
IIRC, sitting in the exit row does not entitle you to be first out the door, you agree to assist other passengers in addition to opening the door.

I've always thought about this issue, should you survive and others that survive report that you just jumped out and it's determined it cost others their lives. I would imagine there would be a few law suits.

Pismocrab Feb 22, 2006 7:41 pm


Originally Posted by deac83
IIRC, sitting in the exit row does not entitle you to be first out the door, you agree to assist other passengers in addition to opening the door.

I've always thought about this issue, should you survive and others that survive report that you just jumped out and it's determined it cost others their lives. I would imagine there would be a few law suits.

And those lawsuits would be frivolous. Sitting in an exit row does not come with legally binding responsibilities. Now, if an FA jumped out first, THAT would be another matter entirely.

gemac Feb 22, 2006 7:41 pm


Originally Posted by deac83
IIRC, sitting in the exit row does not entitle you to be first out the door, you agree to assist other passengers in addition to opening the door.

I've always thought about this issue, should you survive and others that survive report that you just jumped out and it's determined it cost others their lives. I would imagine there would be a few law suits.

IIRC, what you are supposed to do is to exit yourself and stand on the wing helping people, if a wing exit. If not, you are supposed to pop the slide, hop out and slide down, and then stand at the bottom helping others get out of the way of the next passenger behind them, who is already sliding down. I don't remember anything about standing in front of the door to help people. I hope never to use that emergency exit, but if we should have to, you just go ahead and hop on out. I promise I won't sue. :)

DrBeeper Feb 22, 2006 8:01 pm


Originally Posted by JDiver
Thanks, DCA Blondie, that sounds like just the ticket!

Jet flight is so smooth - most of the time! - and we have so many aids (Doppler radar, etc.) to help avoid dealing with wind shears, etc. people have little experience with nasty bumps in the night, and feel FAs are just carping when they ask people to stow that laptop or big bag.

I've been in landings hard enough to pop all the 02 masks and open some of the bins; I'm glad nothing large went flying inside the cabin. And all it takes is one incident like AF 358 to think of what could have happened if an exit was blocked by a bag, etc.

I flew from LGA to CMH on Friday morning in that hiddeous storm. The person next to me was an AA FA deadheading on USAir. Everything was stowed properly, fortunately, because there was some serious down drafts (not to mention my favorite, side-to-side). He asked someone to put away their laptop after the person ignored the FA's order to put away all portable electronic equipment. Thank goodness for FAs!

In the years of flying, FAs have been extremely useful in emergency situations. 1) Delta L1011 catching fire on takeoff from SFO - excellent but firm FA support, 2) Delta L1011 ATL-SFO, microburst related to thunderstorm over Louisiana - again, great at having things stowed and placating scared passengers. And miscellaneous other times (aileron failure (twice) Delta, America West, compressor failures (three times) AA, America West, Delta. Only one on an AA flight (compressor faiilure on takeover at LAX in a 777 headed to DFW) - got 3,000 miles for that along with a nice form letter!

So, I wish everyone listened to their FAs.

deac83 Feb 22, 2006 10:28 pm


Federal regulations require that a Customer select a non-exit seat if he or she cannot or does not wish to perform the following functions:

* Locate the emergency exit
* Recognize the emergency exit opening mechanism
* Comprehend the instructions for operating the emergency exit
* Operate the emergency exit
* Assess whether opening the emergency exit will increase the hazards to which passengers may be exposed
* Follow oral directions and hand signals given by a crewmember
* Secure the emergency exit window so that it will not impede use of the exit
* Pass expeditiously through the emergency exit
* Assess, select, and follow a safe path away from the emergency exit
I would guess that one of the reasons they ask for a verbal response is to ensure you have heard and understoodd the above which could be considered a verbal contract and additionally limits the airlines liability if you can't open and lift the door.

clarkef Feb 23, 2006 12:03 am


Originally Posted by deac83
I would guess that one of the reasons they ask for a verbal response is to ensure you have heard and understoodd the above which could be considered a verbal contract and additionally limits the airlines liability if you can't open and lift the door.

It wouldn't be a contract. I suspect its a compliance issue only.


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