Last night at MCO they were confiscating little scissors and small pocket knives (I personally don't think they should be allowed) and the lines came to a halt for a while with all of the passengers complaining. The screeners loadly announced that people were mistaken that the TSA has revised the rules on what can be carried on. Sounds like one airport didn't receive a memo or two or pay any attention to the news.

Just curious -- is it just general discomfort around tiny knives, or is there some credible scenario for breaking into the cockpit with a tiny knife?

I sure can't think of any, and no one I've ever asked has been able to come up with one other than "yes, there is a credible scenario that a hijacker can break into a cockpit with a tiny knife, but we can't disclose it because it would give 'them' ideas"

Seriously, what can you do with a tiny knife in the air you couldn't do with a tiny knife at the mall?

Does everyone assume that pilots are not going to open the door for anyone for any reason if they sense something sketchy is going on? I personally do. I also am fairly certain that should there be a hijack attempt that the crew finds out about that they would never open the door.

I would say that I would examine closely the cockpit door to see if a pocketknife would work, but I don't want to get SSSS forever or be taken to the small room at the airport to discuss my unwholesome attention to the cockpit door details.

Naah, they're just being silly. There are a thousand and one ways to get a sharp object onto a plane, if you only think about it.

Here, I'll get you three, to get you started:

Have you ever brought an umbrella onto the plane in your carry-on? Did they check that none of the spines were sharpened or could be used as a weapon? Nope, I didn't think so.

Have you ever brought a wine bottle on the plane? Guess what happens if you break it over someone's head, or smash the bottom and use the resulting sharp edges.

Have you ever checked out ceramic knives? It's not widely known, but they aren't detected by metal detectors. I once met someone who claimed to have flown dozens of flights, carrying his ceramic knife on all of them.

If anyone seriously tries to hijack a plane today, they will find themselves plastered to the ceiling of the plane. Let's see how much harm they can do from there.

The new cockpit doors are kevlar-reinforced and impervious to ordinary bullets and even small bombs. A small knife wouldn't even scratch one. It's a complete waste of time.

Bruce

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Not to dispute your point, but I'd go even farther -- that would result in a policy of straightjacketing all the passengers and locking them to their seats. A strong person is a threat with or without additional paraphenalia.

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I agree with you.

Some people (like me) think that middle ground was exactly where we were for about 30+ years with airport screening prior to September 11, 2001. No obvious guns, huge knives or obvious bombs. But no infantile obsessions on the part of the government with small pocketknives or pointy scissors or small tools. IMO, Idiot Mineta moved us from that cherished middle ground to an extremist location that may take us many years from which to return.

Add to this my favorite "soapbox": Limit the scope of secondary screenings to resolving WTMD alarms, X-ray images and other clearly articulated reasonable suspicions. Scrap the SSSS.

Seems like reasonable middle ground to me.

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Excellent points, Bart.

In several decades of flying, I have never had occasion to travel with the various martial arts weaponry you listed and suspect that in many states, some of those items are illegal to carry as concealed weapons. So their inclusion on the list is certainly reasonable. Their prohibition wouldn't impact most law-abiding business travelers.

Power drill? Carried one on in my carryon bag years ago - a Tim Allen autographed 3/8 inch drill (corded). Wasn't checking a bag and joked with the AA-employed screeners who wondered why anyone would have such an item in their bag. When I pointed out the autograph, they understood and wished me a pleasant flight. As it wasn't a cordless drill, it wouldn't be very useful for drilling anything (this was before in-seat powerports) onboard. I suppose drill today might scare the hell out of many people - after all, nothing good could come from drilling holes in the airplane fuselage at 37,000ft.

It's more to do with someone who wigs out in flight and needs to be subdued. It's a lot easier if he/she doesn't have that thing when you are in a tight quarters and you can't get out of arms reach if need be. Granted some of those free pocket knives are dangerous because they are dull and barely cut paper. There are plenty of things that can be used as a weapon on board the plane if anyone truely wanted to hurt someone.

Bart, I think you may have misinterpreted my message. I was pointing out ways to get various kinds of sharp objects onto a plane, not to suggest that screening for weapons is pointless, but rather to point out that confiscating small manicure scissors is pointless. It's crazy to confiscate manicure scissors when anyone intent on serious mischief could easily get far more dangerous weapons on the plane.

Good heavens, no! I'm not advocating risk-avoidance. Quite the opposite: I intended to point out that risk-avoidance, taken seriously, leads to absurd conclusions. Yet the only possible justification for confiscating small manicure scissors is an adherence to risk-avoidance policies. Corollary: confiscation of small manicure scissors doesn't make much sense.

That doesn't help much, if the passenger is carrying the ceramic knife in his pocket through the metal detector. The point is, if it's this easy for someone to get a ceramic knife on the plane, why do we bother confiscating manicure scissors? What is the possible threat that confiscation of manicure scissors is intended to defend against? There is no way that any terrorist is going to bother trying to smuggle manicure scissors aboard, when there are so many easier, better ways they can arrange to have a weapon onboard.


Indeed. I wasn't trying to claim that overall security is ineffective. Instead, I was trying to claim that confiscation of manicure scissors is silly, pointless, ineffective, and inconsistent.