Puffing to start at PBI
 

We get the puffer machine that detects explosive material on people. Wonder if that is part of the reason we get 100 new screeners? I guess it is better use of money than the half million $ Homeland Security go fast boat
I saw yesterday cruising up the Intracoastal Waterway. I felt sooooo much safer cruising out the inlet.


http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localne.../0729puff.html

Think of it as the bomb-sniffing dog of the future. You don't have to feed it, walk or train it—but it cost about $160,000.

It answers to the name, "Explosives Detection Trace Portal." But you can call it "Puffer."

Not everyone boarding a flight through Concourse A/B will have to step through the 8-foot, 5-inch portal, but those who do will experience a momentary burst of cool air from four directions. After a 15-second pause while the machine "sniffs" the particles dispersed by the puff of air in search of nitrartes or other materials used in bomb-making, the passenger is instructed to exit. Or not.

If the Puffer detects traces of explosives—and simply working in a garden might leave fertilizer on your hands—the passenger will be taken aside and sent through the security procedure again.

Checked baggage is already examined for explosives residue. Now PBIA joins Boston, New York, Los Angeles and 13 other airports equipped with the high-tech portals.

Sniffing Portals
 

I have been through the GE EntryScan at TPA twice (exited the secure area to return to check-in counter) as I was designated a "SSSS" as a result of missing my flight and the Ticket Agent didn't bother putting my Plat FF # in the new reservation.

From what I understand, different portals are in use from different manafacturers, but at TPA the GE EntryScan was only used for Selectee passengers. It seemed to take forever while I was in the machine, but it was actually pretty quick and faster than enduring a full secondary screening.

The setup at TPA was (1) GE EntryScan Portal and (2) WTMD, while hand luggage went through a normal x-ray and was ETD swabbed. As long as you did not alarm, you were not wanded, patted down, or touched. Shoes were ok, as long as they did not trigger WTMD.

With respect to portal usage, I feel using it for selectees only is a waste of resources. Yes, it makes things better for the selectees as implemented in TPA, but the selectee program does not work.

Instead, passengers should be randomly be sent through the portal on an on-going basis. A system with complete random selection as passengers (adults) approach the checkpoint. It could be every 8th passenger, the next passenger to walk along when the machine opens up, or the passenger who walks by first after the clock hits the 50 second hand. This way no one knows who is going to go through the portal - nothing like the SSSS announcing one will get extra security.

If handled properly, it may add an extra 15 seconds to screenings of passengers randomly sent into the portal. To do anything else with it would be a waste of resources.

The only downside to the portal's is I would hate to have one get a positive hit as a result of walking on fertilized lawn, etc. That would probably result in a full body patdown and full search of luggage with additional ETD.

What do others think? I say a complete random approach -- don't just tie it up for selectees.

SDF_Traveler

Already happened.

The GE Entry scan was bought out by SDS. The actual cost of the machine including shipping,installation,training and setup is closer to 500K each. The time to scan a passenger is closer to 2 minutes. They are a bottleneck in the process and cost prohibitive to have for every lane at a checkpoint. That is why they are going to the SSSS lane.

Tell you why I disagree with this.
Since the TSA has yet to catch a terrorist in 3+ years of screening over a billion pax, adding yet another time-delaying, expensive layer to the screening is only heaping insult on top of injury IMO.
Why test one out of eight pax since not even one out of 800 million is a terrorist??
I opt for bdschobel's Magic Rock™ as a more effective terrorist deterrent.

The terrorists are not going to kill me, it is the aggravation at the security points that will. If this moves the passengers faster though A/B terminals at PBI then it will save lives. A few times the line for security went all the way from A/B to C where Delta is at. Fortunately I was not using A/B on those bad days and only had one person in front of me at terminal C which had three times as many security people as needed that day.

I agree completely.

The fear-mongers in charge have been searching for their own very expensive magic rock, and in these devices they may have found it.

Even worse, there are far too many people who think that the tragic events in London this past month are proof that we should be "puffing" pax on subways, buses and trains here in the USA. :rolleyes:

If the devices were cheaper and could process dozens of people in 15 seconds, I'd be wholly in favor of this. As it stands now, I don't see why a bomb-sniffing dog walking the line won't work for most conventional explosives. (But then still there will be the "possibility" that someone could mix up an explosive airside still.)

This is a better option than the backscatter x-ray, although the two (technology devices) could be "complementary" to one another; unfortunately the expense in money and time will be anything but "complimentary".

Oh, the terrorists have already won. They hate the freedoms that most Americans enjoy. And things like "random" secondaries and the bag inspections going into the subways go against the freedoms that we are known for.

Or known for to be losing.

I actually don't mind this machine. They've been using it at the CN Tower for many, many years now. Even before 9/11, I believe.

The only difference is that when I went through, it only took five seconds, max.

I'm no fan of the TSA, as I'm sure others know, but I don't mind the machine likewise. The machine is non-intrusive, it's simple, and it tests passengers for explosives, which utimately is a 'weak' link in the current system.

As to whether it is really needed from a risk management standpoint, add into the factor the cost of the machine, installation, and maintanance, is another question.

RE: eyecue's comments about it taking two minutes

As to the actual time it took me to enter the GE EntryScan at TPA (once I was allowed to enter), for the air to puff, analyize and door open with green light, I honestly don't think it was any more than 30 seconds. While in the machine, it seems like an eternity, which is how my partner felt while in the machine, but when I watched other pax go through, it seemed pretty quick. Granted, I did not have a stopwatch or any way to time this, it certainly wasn't two minutes.

The best benefit was, as a selectee, I was not touched, wanded, etc., and between the TPA setup and line management, we cleared the checkpoint FASTER than if we had continued in line for a normal screening.

However, as in my original post, we all know the Selectee system is seriously flawed when it comes to selection of passengers. While the machine may make the selectee process less invasive, to purchase this machine for selectees only is a waste, IMHO. The wrong pax are being selected based on criteria such as one-ways or pseudo one-ways with codeshares, the latter where I get nailed the most often. (i.e. I purchase a ticket from NW, I travel one direction on NW, the other on CO or DL. CO or DL sees me as one-way and nails me SSSS. Sometimes I will purchase tix where I have one segment (the first segment on an outbound or return) operated by a codeshare partner, this is seen as one-way, thus SSSS).

Your boarding pass is plastered SSSS - I doubt any terrorist would proceed through the checkpoint with explosives as a result.

Providing the TSA is hellbent at purchasing these machines and installing them, wouldn't it make sense, from a security standpoint, to screen passengers at random with the portal? Yet have it set up in a way that it will not create bottlenecks at the machine slowing travelers down? Heck, at busy airports, if a special lane was set aside with proper line/queue management, it's possible to get the "random" group screened at the same speed, if not faster than those in the primary WTMD line such as my experience at TPA because individuals could be taken from the line at a point prior waiting for the WTMD.

At TPA (airside A, last December), with their line management, Selectees are pulled immediately before even waiting for a WTMD to the lane with the portal. Establish a random system such as this and I'd be willing to bet (when lines are long) passengers would prefer to go through the portal line.

SDF_Traveler

We dont "catch" we "deter." So success cant be measured that way.

This half-a**ed system could not deter even a somewhat determined terrorist. There are so many holes in current U.S. aviation security that I am amazed another attack has not occurred since 2001.

I agree with SDF_Traveler, these puffer machines could be implemented as part of a more effective screening system that would actually deter a person from attempting to transport explosives through a checkpoint and onto an airliner. As for cargo on airliners, apparently Congress and DHS/TSA do not see a threat there.

You don't "catch" but deter... What about the all of the confiscated items, including items which actually are weapons, including handguns which have been "caught", oh, and "TSA Civil Fined" and/or criminally prosecuted (never mind those who made it past security without it being detected) -- despite the fact these have been "good guys" (some, real idiots, I must add) and not "evil-doers".

I'll go part way and say deterance is important; but if the only purpose of the TSA is to deter, that just goes to show it's nothing but a "Dog and Pony Show" to "deter" terrorists, but likely couldn't "catch" one. As has been pointed out, there are still many holes in the US Aviation security system -- as with PH, I too am amazed we haven't been hit again. Thank god we haven't and I pray we don't, but if you really want a system which has a sense of true security, you have further to go. Such a system does not have to slow down & greatly inconvienience passengers either.

In that case, I might as well pull out Spiff's Magic Rock (tm) and we could give three years of credit to the rock.

SDF_Traveler

Deterance is important, but between these puffer machines and other measures, which do not have to slow down or inconvienience passengers, I believe the TSA should be able to "catch" evil-doers should they ever come through.

SDF_Traveler

It appears as though you may have inside information from reliable sources.:D Please contact the DHS and inform them of your revelation. I am sure they will be interested.

An interesting tidbit from the article
 

Be nice to your local TSA:

Airlines will notify screeners of passengers they want puffed based on a range of factors, such as those purchasing a one-way ticket, but individual screeners also have the authority to direct passengers to the EntryScan.

Emphasis mine.

the device was installed at the EWR concourse A gates...use was voluntary, although the non-english speaking ID checker was grunting and gesturing at pax into the line with the machine, most of them just ignored him.

I saw a woman volunteer to use it and was told not to take off her shoes, so I thought, "what the heck, anything to avoid taking off my shoes"...but then she got the shoe carnival treatment and the WTMD on the other side of the puffer...so I did an about face and went to the regular line.

Thanks, but no thanks.

So, based on bocastephen's experience at EWR, some TSAers there have limited/no faith in these devices, been "informed"/know they don't work (at least for certain things), and/or have a bare foot/shoe fetish that they are not willing to control.

I saw it twice this weekend...on Saturday, I almost went through before seeing the WTMD and show carnival on the other side - but no one was being directed to it (except via the unintelligable grunt from the ID checker, which could have been nothing more than passing gas). On Sunday, the TSA screeners were soliciting people to 'try it out' (without volunteering details of what it did), but most people I saw took a pass and ignored that line.

However, from what I witnessed, the sniffer does not take the place of the WTMD, which in itself (certainly at EWR), requires participating in the Shoe Carnival...it's just one extra step to screen passengers, and from what I have read about the machine, will cause the waiting time to triple or quadruple at peak periods.

I'm editing to add: PBI is a screening horror at the best of times, especially the DL concourse...adding this thing to the mix will get everyone to the airport 3 hours before departure to make it through by boarding time.

I have heard next we are going to have to shake the magic 8 ball and it will tell TSA if they should secondary us or not *smile*

(emphasis mine)

Because, of course, we all know terrorists buy one-way tickets since they won't be using the return flight! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Credit where credit's due.
 

Are you freaking serious? That's one heck of a leap you took there, and your final implication is incorrect.

Naive assumptions aside, these puffer machines appear to actually be an intelligent deterrent, *if* they work and are used efficiently (randomly).

IMO, the WTMDs are a marginal deterrent at best. The ex-military, security clearance holding, Delta Captains making 250K/yr, get conspicuously screened in front of the passengers several times per day, while many of the felony convicted or undocumented immigrant, etc., minimum wage earning, Taco Bell employees have daily, unscreened access to the sterile area (out of passenger sight, of course).

I encourage taxpayer scrutiny and accountability, but disdain for one stupid procedure does not minimize the legitimacy of another. Example...The no-fly list and it's implementation are currently a disaster and should have been fixed a long time ago, however:

Positive bag matching is always a good thing.
The trusted traveler program is a good thing, but it is not being implemented.
ETD screening of luggage is a good thing, but cargo is still high-risk.
The FAM program is a good thing, but it is highly mismanaged.
The body scan imager is a good thing, but not deployed.
Bio-agent detectors are a good thing, but underutilized.
The puffers are a good thing, if used randomly.

Credit where credit's due.

I disagree that bag matching is always a good thing.

I disagree that the trusted traveler program is a good thing.

I disagree with the remainder of your "good things" list as well.

We can agree to disagree.

I disagree that bag matching is disagreeable, to a degree.

I agree to disagree that the trusted traveler program is a good thing.

I disagree to disagree with the remainder of your "good things" as I agree with some. (but disagree with others).

I agree that we can disagree to agree ?!? Wait..where was I.....oh well!

Have a great day all! :p

I agree and/or disagree with everything......;).

Tsa and air marshalls are a waste of money. One steals things from bags the other steals my first class seats. Let's privatize this b*tch and stop intervening in other countries foreign policies and setting up repressive foreign governments and maybe we won't have to waste this money. And instead close the southern border and kick all illegals out.

Perhaps... but what exactly does it prevent? A non-suicidal bomber from sumggling a bomb aboard in luggage that ostensibly has already been screened? It is also very difficult to implement in practice; irregular ops and even slight delays, weather, and weight-and-balance issues sometimes mean bags get routed onto other planes, as do bags that have for some reason missed a flight. We could probably set the system to require that a bag always travels with a pax, but it would have serious repercussions on scheduling and operations.

Hmm, well, I will say that a terrorist may either get himself/herself onto the program (if he/she has a clean enough background--which given the sorts of checks done isn't beyond credibility at all), or might bribe / plant items on someone on the program, so its effectiveness would seem to be fairly limited to me.

Absolutely. Cargo is one of the wide-open security holes that the TSA hopes no one will notice (particularly terrorists). Airlines make a ton of money carrying cargo, too, so it's not like we can simply require all cargo be carried on cargo planes and not in passenger plane holds, too.

I tend to agree. I know there are those on this board that feel that the FAM program as a concept is wrong (no weapons should be on planes, etc.), but I personally feel that if it was properly implemented, it would be worthwhile. You shouldn't be able to spot a FAM from a mile away, they shouldn't always sit in first class, board first (ahead of even first class / VIPs / etc.), and so forth.

Well, as it stands, I would disagree that it is a "good thing." It would need to better obscure the body images (while somehow not obscuring any images of "bad" items like weapons, bombs, etc.), and there's also the issue that it does utilize ionizing radiation. If they could do this in a way that didn't pose any health risks, have at it.

Having worked with some before, I can say that they are very limited and do not work well enough to be deployed widely. Also, what purpose would they serve at an airport? The things they're set to detect wouldn't make a lot of sense to be deployed at an airport, anyway. It's not like they catch an aerosolized mist of highly virulent flu viruses, which would be devastating if deployed where it would quickly spread around the globe (although there's the danger of that even without terrorists)

Perhaps ... but the policies of a positive alarm may need a lot of examination. If a group of terrorists is traveling, all on separate tickets, and one gets selected for the puffer and is "caught," are they going to dump the entire terminal? Probably not--and thus his buddies proceed onward to their goal. Randomness is only a deterrent, not a true catch-all.

It's EWR, what else do you expect? :D Do you really think they're capable of applying common sense at, <gasp>, EWR?

At TPA airside A, it was for secondary only; at TPA - where some sanity & common sense exists - the use of it eliminated the shoe carnival 100%, as by wearing your shoes through the machine, it would test and detect any explosive residue. No need to play shoe carnival.

Why did the TSA even bother to purchase and install a portal for EWR if they're still going to run a shoe carnival in that lane? :rolleyes: :td:

The only justification for shoe removal at TPA in the portal lane was only if you alarmed the WTMD because of your shoes. If you don't alarm, you're free to go.

I'm not even sure the TSA at EWR has hope... A family member of mine who is recovering from breast cancer went through EWR/C yesterday and the treatment she was objected to was deplorable (let's leave it at that).

SDF_Traveler

I agree totally..I can't count the numbers of times I have seen FAMS walking down the concourse carrying a 1st class seat under each arm. It's my belief that they sell them on E-BAY. No wonder the airlines are in trouble..can you imagine how much it costs to replace them? We should put a stop to this immediately by hiring private security FAMS for minimum wage...they will be much more trustworthy, even without the top-secret clearance or background checks.

I also agree that we should kick all illegals out...as soon as I find someone to clean my house for 50 cents an hour. Wait...what if we make the illegals the FAMS?

Have a great day all! :p

Please at least assure us, SDF_Traveler, that the treatment didn't have anything to do with a prosthesis.

Yeah, common sense would say that the puffer would prove your shoes aren't concealing explosives, and the WTMD would demonstrate no concealed metal objects (knives, etc.) But then, that would be common sense, and we are talking both about the TSA and EWR here...

I fly Delta out of PBI at least 3 times a month and never encounter much of a line. Now, I am not a snowbird, so I am rarely trying to fly out on a Friday. I also hate flying out early in the morning. Maybe I just miss the big crowd days.
Some of the older screeners are painfully slow, and the ticket checkers are not the broghtest, but PBI is far better than a lot of airports its size, IMO.

Dear hiltonhead ,
To the air marshall comment not privatise get rid of them.
To the tsa screeners yes privatise them.
And in regard to illegals needing to be here because we need cheap labor. Either A- do your own lawn or B pay americans better wages nobody will work for fifty cents. The illegals should be kicked out kids born here need their usa citizenship revoked. Companies and citizens who hire illegals should face penalties and jail time.

I strongly agree with your last sentence. That is the only way America will take the problem serious...by hitting the companies in the wallet. Making the TSA private will solve nothing. The pay and benifits would be lower..which leads to lower qualified employees (I met a married couple in their 50's working for private company at BNA right after 9-11..they tried to convince everyone that even though they took the checkpoint security job, they were being actively recruited by the C.I.A. as deep cover operatives :rolleyes: ). I have met hundreds of TSA employees and have to say that the professionalism is a great deal higher....wait...wait...BUT, they still have a long way to go and constantly strive to work around some of the moronic policy that they are forced to abide. A great deal of them seem to have acquired a pessimistic attitude and remind me of street cops with 20 years on the beat. Management should make a policy of promoting and rewarding the pleasant ones that enjoy their jobs and can the ones that are there to feed off of the government teat. But we both know that won't happen.

As far as the FAM discussion...dead horse. A house has not burned nor been broken into in my neighbor in decades, but I still want to keep the police and fire department around. From your earlier post, it seems that the heart of your objection is the 1st class seat. Move 1st class to the rear and then everyone can be happy.

Have a great day all! :p