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-   -   Virgin Flight is diverted (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/439662-virgin-flight-diverted.html)

OrlandoFlyer Jun 3, 2005 8:43 am

Virgin Flight is diverted
 
Just heard on the news that a VS A340 flight with 271 passengers has been diverted to Halifax on the way from LHR to JFK. The news said that the pilot accidentally squawked a hi-jacking but it was a mistake. Fighters have been sent up to escort the flight to Halifax, despite the fact that the pilot indicated that he made a mistake.

bdschobel Jun 3, 2005 9:11 am

June 3, 2005
Virgin Flight Diverted Over Hijacking Signal
By REUTERS
Filed at 10:42 a.m. ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A Virgin Atlantic airplane flying from London to New York is being diverted to Canada under fighter escort after conflicting signals about a possible hijacking, a Homeland Security official said on Friday.

The official said Virgin Flight 45 was diverted over the Atlantic Ocean after the airplane emitted a signal indicating a possible hijacking.

The pilot has since indicated that the airplane was not being hijacked, the official said.

hiltonhead Jun 3, 2005 9:22 am


Originally Posted by OrlandoFlyer
Just heard on the news that a VS A340 flight with 271 passengers has been diverted to Halifax on the way from LHR to JFK. The news said that the pilot accidentally squawked a hi-jacking but it was a mistake. Fighters have been sent up to escort the flight to Halifax, despite the fact that the pilot indicated that he made a mistake.

Standard procedure...hard to tell by voice if pilot is being held hostage. Transponder kept emitting hijack code after contact was made. Government just making sure and not taking chances on passengers lives. Great policy and I'm sure you would appreciate the extra effort if you were on the plane.

Have a great day all! :p

greggwiggins Jun 3, 2005 9:25 am

Associated Press report on incident
 
AP coverage from the Washington Post website is at:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060300539.html

Cholula Jun 3, 2005 9:42 am


Originally Posted by hiltonhead
Standard procedure...hard to tell by voice if pilot is being held hostage. Transponder kept emitting hijack code after contact was made. Government just making sure and not taking chances on passengers lives. Great policy and I'm sure you would appreciate the extra effort if you were on the plane.

I agree. Once the hijack button is pressed, the plane has to land, mistake or not.

exerda Jun 3, 2005 9:50 am

Yep, this is far different than having a potential match against the no-fly list aboard. The pilot signalled a hijacking, even if by accident, and there's no way to tell if his later recanting of that signal was due to duress or not without getting the plane on the ground. Drat, and just when I was hoping we'd see yet another no-fly fiasco ;)

AArlington Jun 3, 2005 4:52 pm

Well handled
 
And I'm glad they didn't shoot it down... Imagine if this happend on a flight to DCA.

l etoile Jun 3, 2005 5:09 pm


Originally Posted by Cholula
I agree. Once the hijack button is pressed, the plane has to land, mistake or not.

Actually, there are procedures in place with ATC for determining whether or not the alarms are real. They do happen sometimes and generally don't result in diversions. Someone said this plane continued to squawk 7500 - the hijack code - so that's likely what led to the decision to force it to land. ATC likely asked the pilots to confirm, they negated, but continued to squawk 7500, leaving ATC to believe they were possibly being hijacked.

VideoPaul Jun 4, 2005 11:51 am

its easier than you think
 

Originally Posted by letiole
Actually, there are procedures in place with ATC for determining whether or not the alarms are real. They do happen sometimes and generally don't result in diversions. Someone said this plane continued to squawk 7500 - the hijack code - so that's likely what led to the decision to force it to land. ATC likely asked the pilots to confirm, they negated, but continued to squawk 7500, leaving ATC to believe they were possibly being hijacked.

The Mode C transponder which sends this code is very old technology. Typically you have four rotary knobs with the digis 0 thru 9 on them. The VFR (no flight plan, go wherever) code is 1200. You're supposed to leave it on 1200 untul you are assigned a specific code (squawk) by a controller, then you leave it there until you are a VFR flight not using flight following, you land, or until you are hijacked, your voice radio fails, or you have some other general emergency. Then you are SUPPOSED to turn the LAST two digits FIRST, then the first two. Why?

Say you're squawking 1200. You are assigned 4649. You turn the first two dials through to 4 and 6 but pass 7 and 5 on the way around. If the transponder is polled by the radar at the exact wrong moment, you will send 7500. Alarms go off at ATC facilities, all kinds of nonsense breaks loose. THe controller, if he is in contact with you, will ask you one question and one question only, and it is words very close to "Did you really mean to squawk 7500" or simply "Confirm squawk 7500". If you say "yes" then you get pretty much whatever you want in the way of clearances, but you had darn well better have an unwelcome visitor in the cockpit when you land and you will most likely have Major Dwight Smiley on your wing the rest of the way down. If you say NO and indicate some malfunction you will probably still be escorted in these heady days of overblown security, but it's probably better that way. As a plot, I just set the last two numbers first.

--Paul

l etoile Jun 4, 2005 12:11 pm

What's easier than I think?


Originally Posted by VideoPaul
You turn the first two dials through to 4 and 6 but pass 7 and 5 on the way around. If the transponder is polled by the radar at the exact wrong moment, you will send 7500.

Most transponders are bidirectional so you can go from 5 to 2 without bypassing 7. I believe someone thought it was a button pushed in the plane and I'm glad you brought this up as the button thing is incorrect.


Alarms go off at ATC facilities, all kinds of nonsense breaks loose.
No, that's not the case. There are no alarms. Controller asks pilot to "Confirm squawk 7500." If there is silence, confirmation or if it's NORDO, well it's going to be assumed a hijacking is in progress. If he negates and switches the transponder it's not much of an issue. In this case, pilot apparently negated but continued to squawk 7500. The only change since 9/11 is if the pilot negated, controllers monitor that flight more carefully and are quick to note if it deviates from course or does anything strange. In that case, there are phone calls that get made ...

A bit of a problem is that everyone in the world can easily know the emergency squawk codes and the procedures for negating them. It's tough to keep it much of a secret when there are tens of thousands of pilots using the same system worldwide.

Most ATC facilities are making tours available again. If you're interested in learning more about ATC, you might want to contact Chicago Center about a tour.

VideoPaul Jun 5, 2005 1:24 pm

Would be interesting to get the story first hand then
 

Originally Posted by letiole

No, that's not the case. There are no alarms. Controller asks pilot to "Confirm squawk 7500." If there is silence, confirmation or if it's NORDO, well it's going to be assumed a hijacking is in progress.

I was told (a coupe of years ago) that the target blooms on the scope like when you hit IDENT, and the target also flashes on the scope, and that audible alarms sound in the scope room and that supervisors are summoned immediately. I havent seen it personaly, I was only going on what I was told. If I was told bad information I stand corrected.


Originally Posted by letiloe
Most ATC facilities are making tours available again. If you're interested in learning more about ATC, you might want to contact Chicago Center about a tour.

Actually I was really curious about Center here so I drove past it last weekend. The whole place screams "Go away". 12 foot high cyclone fences, concertina wire, the guard standing in FRONT of the guard building instead of sitting inside, the entire place looked about as welcoming as the Ohio correctional facility outside of Columbus.

I do beleive that there are ways that a licensed pilot can get a walkthrough and I really should do that. If I can arrange that I'll report back on what the story is as it is presented to me. I never drove by right after 9-11, but I rememebr that in the first few days that O'Hare had city snowplows blocking every point of access to the airport. I'd love to know what ZAU looked like.

--Paul

l etoile Jun 5, 2005 7:25 pm

VideoPaul: YHM.

Maxwell Smart Jun 6, 2005 8:51 am


Originally Posted by VideoPaul
As a plot, I just set the last two numbers first.

--Paul


Hmmm. Never thought of that, good suggestion.

I was taught a different method-- switch the transponder to standby first, then set the code. Same result, no chance of inadvertent 7700, 7600, 7500, etc.

And I would strongly recommend a tour of ATC facilities. I've visited Washington Center in Leesburg, VA (ZDC). Got about a 1-hour grand tour, including spending about 20 minutes sitting at a console with a sector controller with headphones patched into his communications. Very interesting indeed!
Security-wise, (this was pre-9/11, April 2000), the facility was rather non-descript, but surrounded by fences and signs that it was a restricted area and that tresspassing, disruption, etc. could lead to loss of life (referring, I assume, to airplane passengers, not to the tresspassers). No obvious sign of guards, etc.

Cholula Jun 6, 2005 8:59 am

I saw an update on this situation today and was struck by the phrase which I bolded:


The perception of threat by Canadian authorities was relatively short-lived,
Taplin said. The aircraft was intercepted at 1010 local -- approximately two
hours before it landed in Halifax. The Airbus was cleared by means of a
secret communication between the intercepting Canadian warplanes and the
inbound passenger flight.

When asked how the intercepting CF-18 pilots knew the pilot aboard the A340
was all right, one Virgin official told ABC News, "We have ways of knowing
he is OK, which we cannot let you know."


Once on the ground, the aircraft was boarded by black-clad members of a
local emergency response team to ensure there really was no trouble aboard
the flight. They interviewed both crew members and passengers.

Haven't we seen similar statements in some of the threads around here?? ;)

l etoile Jun 6, 2005 9:02 am


Originally Posted by Maxwell Smart
...and that tresspassing, disruption, etc. could lead to loss of life (referring, I assume, to airplane passengers, not to the tresspassers). No obvious sign of guards, etc.


No, they were referring to the trespassers possibly being shot. ATC centers have all had armed guards at least since the early '80s, and probably long before.


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