Efficiency study
 

The big engineer types are at it again at DEN. We had an efficiency study last year and they asked us to have passengers lay out their items in a certain order on the x-ray belt: Shoes, luggage, then laptops. The thinking was that a passenger would come through put their shoes on while waiting for the rest of the luggage and laptop to appear and the line would move faster. Problem was that they didnt consider the people would value laptops to the point that they wanted it to get out of the x-ray and get possession of it before it walked away. Needless to say their shoes took a back seat.
Today starts another study! They took one of the WTMD out of the South checkpoint. Therefore now there are two x-ray lines feeding one WTMD! This is supposed to increase efficiency? What do all you FF think? Please keep it light and on topic. :D

Yes, they need to take into account that the savvy traveler is going to be primarily concerned with protecting valuables, which means securing the laptop and other electronics and wallet first, before worrying about shoes, which are unlikely to be stolen.

It's a poor idea. They'll lose time if they have to have stop the conveyor to have the "why we think it is a good idea for you to take your shoes off discussion." If they keep the conveyor running, bags can pass while we help the screeners realize that they really don't like their jobs.

If the DEN TSA is serious about efficiency, then it would follow the TSA SOP and let the people with the appropriate shoes pass through unmolested (literally and figuratively).

In the long run, I take this as a great sign. It tells me that money and manpower for the TSA are thinning. While it means very little today, it comes over to me as a sign for the long term that the whole TSA model might be crumbling.

If you mean two x-ray machines for carry-ons feeding one WTMD, I definitely think it is worth studying. I think most of the backup I have experienced is caused by people unloading all of their crap, taking their shoes off, waiting for the belt to clear, etc. I have rarely had to wait for the WTMD in recent memory.

We FT'ers also did a study of which order we should send our stuff through. We didn't come up with the same order they did in Denver.
As Doppy just mentioned, we value our laptops and will put them somewhere in the middle of the stuff... not at the beginning, not at the end.
Don't get too pushy, TSA. It's bad enough that we have to go through all this, now they want to tell us the order!!

i go through with crowds that are predominantly business travellers. you have some that want it first so they can "meet it on the way down", others who want it in the middle, and last those that don't want to walk through 'till the laptop goes through last.

let the people do what they want, it's probably going to slow down the line more if theres an effort to try and get the masses to follow some specific order.

Hmm--I do shoes, luggage, laptop, which apparently was the DEN suggestion. I don't let go of my laptop until the WTMD is available, and I don't go through the WTMD until my laptop is through the flappers. If they scan the bags quick, I retrieve the laptop first. If they are slow, I put my shoes on. IMO that allows me max control over the most stealable item.

Under circumstances with pax that have a clue and with the 2nd-chance WTMD rule, I think the idea of 2 x-ray per wtmd is worth investigation. WTMD doesn't seem to have many backups these days.

But if there are a lot of clueless pax with keys/coins, or if TSA (secretly) jacks up the sensitivity on the WTMD to enforce the upcoming no-lighter rules, I don't think the idea has a chance.

They were doing 2-xray per WTMD the last time I was at SFO. It seemed to cause confusion when they pulled people aside who wanted to be able to view their stuff while being groped in the secondary.

Here in DEN, you have to watch out for everything. Last year a TSA cronie was arrested for trying to lift $400 out of a CARRY-ON bag. Tried to steal it in front of everyone else.

Also here in DEN, the WTMD settings are different from lane to lane. So, I don't think you have to worry about increased detection settings...they can't get the current ones set straight right now. The settings are different from airport to airport anyway.

If DEN TSA is truly interested in efficiency, they'll stop the "all shoes off" shoe carnival. Lately I joke with the DEN TSA agents when they ask me to take my shoes off. I'll say things like "Oh, shoes off...I must be in Denver." I usually get laughter as a response, or statements like "yeah, we're famous for that" or some such acknowledgement that DEN has a shoe fetish.

Some of the checkpoints at my airport are trying this and it's not working. It's making things ever crazier than it already is. This whole put property in the x-ray in a certain order is a new one on me. Wouldn't you need a line monitor to make that work and we don't have them because everyone is too busy running around doing other things. If they really want to make things more efficent I would say get ideas from the people who work the checkpoints instead of someone who has a engineering degree but who has never worked a security checkpoint at an airport.

Efficiency can be measured by the amount of work divided by the number of resources involved. They just redced the amount of resources (the WTMD Lane). If they also reduced staffing by the same amoun, then I'd supposed they are slightly more efficient here.

But the passengers do not benefit in this situation; only TSA.

Had TSA added another XRay to an existing WTMD then they'd still have two x-rays per WTMD and having an extra X-Ray machine in the overall system would benefit passengers.

ah
 

You dont have your facts straight

You dont have your facts straight.

?

There have been multiple reported cases of theft by screeners at DEN. Those are facts. The reports seem to be a little less frequent now, and it appears that the offenders are being fired and dealt with. But I'd still be careful everywhere and a little more so at DEN.

And it matters not to passengers if WTMDs are set differently or if they are all set the same but the dielectric and metal environments around the WTMDs cause them to behave differently. What matters to passengers is if they set off the WTMD while carrying their usual complement of clothes and metal, and based on passenger reports here, there is inconsistency at DEN and elsewhere.

I'm not sure what rational reason TSA has for being so secretive about WTMD settings. Anyone who flys a lot or even anyone who peruses FT posts from early 2001 to present can get a reasonable approximation as to when major (national) changes in sensitivity happened and when large-scale equipment replacements happened.

yep
 

True, and I know about all of them, the lesso2 post said that a theft occured with a screener right in front of someone. That is not factual.. Both cp thefts occured while the passenger was present but they didnt know it had happened till later on. The inference in his post was that it was seen and reported immediately. Almost a red handed catch. This hasnt been the case.

I dont follow you on the sensativity settings. The thing that makes me nuts is that TSA is accused of changing settings on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. This is not the case. The WTMD that we have have not been changed in sensativity since they were installed. I can tell you that the settings is a number that means nothing to us. While that number is standard throughout the United States, there are environmental issues that you alluded to that affect performance. For example in Denver there are trains under the floor. These trains cause a vibration. The vibration is picked up by the WTMD. Some of the WTMD have had adjustments to the RX antenna phasing to compensate for this. However the sensativity calibration remains constant.. But just try to come through one of these machines with Photogray spectacles on and you wont make it.

There was no inference about how or when the guy got caught. In fact, you would read my statement again, the only inference I made was that this was NOT done in front of the victim's eye.

As for the WTMD settings, I don't know what else to say. In the past, I went through different lines at DEN, then I started tracking which lanes were set off by my belt (the same one, plus the same shoes, every time I travel). I quickly found out which lanes do not get set off by my belt (and yes, there are multiple lanes).

I don't buy your argument about train vibration. I have gone through the checkpoint past the skybridge over in Concourse A and have identified the same thing. The train is further below that checkpoint than the terminal vs. the north and south "main" checkpoints.

And the other thing about airports having different settings. Trust me, I fly more than I care to think about, and it happens. If you do not want to believe me and want to fault train vibration, be my guest. But don't try to baffle me or anyone else with BS because you do not have the first-hand knowledge and experience that I do about this issue. If you want to say I don't have my facts straight, then so be it. I know I do, and I am extremely comfortable and confident in my words. If your agency wasn't so hard-headed, I would actually contact a supervisor and point out which ones are set lower. I wouldn't bother mentioning how other airports have it set differently, because through the words of your DEN colleagues regarding shoes, they would just say (and this seems to be the favorite line) "well, they're doing it wrong."

If you want to maintain an uppity image that the rest of your agency possesses, again, be my guest. All that does is enrage frequent fliers, both on this board and at the checkpoints. And you wonder why we sometimes get hostile towards your agency.

On a personal note, I have to say I am flattered to be your target of ire. No comments, replies or notes of appreciation to the people who originally posted replies to your question....just a challenge to my point about who may or may not have SEEN the crime that was committed by your former colleague. And the WTMD setting...well, I made my case. To challenge my words not based on the point, but just a mere unintentional inference is rather amusing. And I thank you for the attention that you give me and the ability to further prove TSA incompetence.

As your colleagues like to say, "Have a nice day!"

ummm no
 

"Tried to steal it in front of everyone else." Thats your line.


Ever heard of harmonic vibration as it applies to structural mechanics? I was present on the bridge when they scoped the mag and you can "see" when the train goes under the building.

Trust you? Are you forgetting that I work for the TSA? :D I have more knowledge about the settings of the WTMD than you do by virtue of the fact that I work there. The settings are all posted on each machine on a TSA label. They are all the same as far as sensativity is concerned. I alluded to the other settings and how they affect the WTMD. I dont wonder anything.

Your post had nothing to do with the OP. No opinion on the study being done or anything else. It was just an attack at TSA DEN because you claim to live in the area. You also claim to have knowledge that you dont. I was pointing that out. You are wrong about the thefts and wrong about the WTMD both at Denver and NATIONWIDE. You have proven nothing but your own ignorance.

What it all comes down to is does it really matter? Who cares what the metal detector in oompa loompa land did compared to the one in gotham? All you have to do is take off your large metal items and run them through the x-ray. Save for a malfunction or bumping the WTMD a metal detector usually will not alarm if you don't have anything metal on you.

Also, me or anyone else you see at the checkpoints does not have the authority or in most cases the know how to change the settings on the metal detectors. I'm not sure who does actually, probably one of those TSA managers you only hear about but have never seen. All we know is if the machine alarms we can't let you go until your clear either by a second pass or through secondary. So spare the "I went through BFE okay wearing this" speech. It doesn't matter.

If my post had nothing to do with the OP you first, then why are you so hellbent at trying to get back at me? You still haven't replied to the very topic that YOU started. Obviously, you've got something against me.

I couldn't care less if you cracked the human genome code, the fact of the matter is, just like you, I have a routine at the WTMDs that includes wearing the same belt and same shoes every time I fly, and by doing so, I learn with each trip which WTMDs are set off (this inconsistency happens at ORD and SEA as well) and which airports are shoe carnivals.

You're right, I don't have knowledge about the WTMD settings. I couldn't care less. If you read my past postings, you will see that I base my claims on first-hand experience. What is so insulting is that you think you know better than my personal experiences. You can say whatever you want about settings, train vibrations, heck, I don't care if death rays from Mars is the cause. Your "I've seen the settings, so it MUST be true, screw facts" attitude is one of the reasons I despise your arrogant and ineffective agency.

Keep on replying, I enjoy being able to get back at the TSA on this board (especially when I can confidently counter through facts and experiences), whereas if I did this in person, you would certainly find some way to employ some retaliatory measure on me through groping or intimidation.

The fact is, if you have some metal on you, some detectors do not alarm. Like I said in the earlier reply, I don't care about the settings, my goal is to see that I get the least amount of hassle and intrusion from the TSA.

Furthermore, DEN is a shoe carnival airport...ever seen the tent-like exterior design?, they should have it colored in a circus-like appearance and have the bearded lady check our IDs and BPs. Have I mentioned the neat magic trick where a TSA employee has tried to make $400 disappear?

The whole shoe carnival thing is another reason why I don't like spending any more time than I have to putting all my stuff (laptop computer, belt, shoes) back into place. If going thorugh a specific WTMD will save me a minute or two, and if the opportunity is there, I'm going to take full advantage of it.

TSAMGR, yourself, and others have commented that adjusting the sensitivity is not something simple to do and not something that is done often. I tend to believe that is correct.

My personal hypothesis on metal-detectors since summer 2001, not based on any research or even any FT searches to back it up but just personal experience at several airports:

a) Summer 2001: WTMD set insensitive enough to walk through with several keys/coins or even small pocket knife with no alarm.

b) Immediately post-9/11/2001: WTMD jacked up to very sesnsitive setting. Alarms on small belt buckles, any keys, any coins, some underwire bras, some pants, too many credit cards in wallet, etc. Still possible to go through with shoes though. And I never took off my glasses or plastic-band watch.

c) Post shoe-bomber-idiot: WTMD adjusted to cover area closer to the floor and alarm on metal in shoes. All else same as before.

--Sometime during the b-c interval, I went through the WTMD carrying no metal other than my titanium glasses, plastic-band watch, and a single dime that was left in my pocket by accident. I alarmed, apparently because of the dime. The dime was the only thing that set off the wand.

d) Later (2002-2003?): WTMDs were replaced by new units. New units were set at installation with lower sensitivity. (c) and (d) may have been the same event--I don't remember.

--I didn't pay enough attention to recognize the new units, but sometime after the second chance rule went into play I began experimenting and found I could wear my belt and wallet through without alarm.

e) 2/15/2005-- post cigarette-lighter rule--I'll be interested to see what happens here. Last week I went through with my usual metal (above) plus a bic lighter--no alarm. So if TSA is serious about enforcing this rule (personally I think they should give it lip service and no more), then they will either have to jack up the WTMD or full-body pat down everyone.

That's very simple, if your wearing something that has set off a metal detector before take it off.

No, but i've mentioned before someone else in the line at my airport trying to make a passengers necklace disappear and thanks to a TSA screener the thief was caught. Of course that got no attention whatsoever.

Then take it, who said you couldn't?