British Attacks Thwarted?

Old Nov 23, 2004, 5:51 pm
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British Attacks Thwarted?

Don't know if this has been posted yet...

Britain's security services thwarted a September 11-style attack on
targets including Canary Wharf and Heathrow Airport, according to
reports.

The plot is said to have involved pilots being trained to fly into
target buildings including London's famous financial centre and the
world's busiest airport.

It is one of four or five al-Qaeda planned attacks, since 9/11, that
have come to nothing, after the authorities intervened, reports
claim.

The disclosure comes as the Government prepares to unveil a series
of tough law-and-order Bills in tomorrow's Queen's Speech, setting
out the legislative programme for what is expected to be the final
session of the current Parliament.

The speech will contain Bills designed to protect the UK against al-
Qaeda attacks as well as plans for a crackdown on major organised
crime and petty offences which ruin people's lives.

Chief among the measures announced will be a move towards
introducing ID cards and steps to create a nationwide serious crime
agency dubbed the British equivalent of the FBI.

Civil liberties campaigners have expressed alarm at plans by Home
Secretary David Blunkett for the sweeping anti-terror laws should
Labour win the next General Election.

Mr Blunkett revealed a raft of measures at the weekend - from jury-
less anti-terror courts to allowing wire-tap evidence in major
trials - which could be implemented if Labour was re-elected.

He acknowledged that his anti-terror proposals will raise civil
liberties concerns, but insisted that the Government was
acting "proportionately" to protect the public from the threat of an
al-Qaeda attack.

"We will have to take whatever steps are necessary, particularly in
terms of security and intelligence, because it's no good picking the
pieces up - literally - afterwards," he said.

Under his plans, civil orders could be issued against individuals
suspected of planning terrorist acts, restricting their movements
and precluding such activities such as using the internet or
particular banking networks.

Mr Blunkett's comments came after Metropolitan Police Commissioner
Sir John Stevens spoke of his frustration at not being able to talk
about anti-terror successes.

And MI5 chief Eliza Manningham-Buller also spoke publicly about
Britain's success in thwarting fanatics.

Mr Blunkett said he would have to await the outcome of an appeal in
the House of Lords against existing anti-terrorism powers to detain
foreign suspects without trial, before bringing forward new
measures.

In a separate move, he said that he is also considering allowing
wire tap evidence in court cases - including serious criminal trials
as well as for terrorism charges.

In the past the measure has been opposed by the security services,
who fear that they could be forced to disclose secret operations in
court, and Mr Blunkett admits that there are still problems to be
overcome
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 6:04 pm
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What complete and utter nonsense. I've got a similar one for you: Yesterday, the Venusians were getting ready to blast the Earth with a death ray, but I found out about it and stopped them. Oh, I am such a hero! Congratulations, Bruce!
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 6:07 pm
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Originally Posted by bdschobel
What complete and utter nonsense. I've got a similar one for you: Yesterday, the Venusians were getting ready to blast the Earth with a death ray, but I found out about it and stopped them. Oh, I am such a hero! Congratulations, Bruce!

Bruce,

come on, don't steal other people's thunder. You know good and well it was I who stopped the death ray..
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 6:50 pm
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Drat! Busted!

Bruce
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 7:27 pm
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How so very convenient that this little report comes out on the very same day as the Queen's Speech, when her government announces new and draconian measures in the interest of the that ever elusive and poorly defined "security". Mandatory ID cards with information stored such as face image, fingerprints, iris scan (very Orwellian indeed), among other things.

"See, see? See...? We need these things!"
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 7:32 pm
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Originally Posted by bdschobel
What complete and utter nonsense. I've got a similar one for you: Yesterday, the Venusians were getting ready to blast the Earth with a death ray, but I found out about it and stopped them. Oh, I am such a hero! Congratulations, Bruce!
Bruce, You're Right! It was the Pew 238 Explosive Space Modulator!
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 7:51 pm
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Gee -- the US gets a for-no-reason orange alert timed to coincide with Kerry's acceptance speech at the Democratic Convention. Now they've got similar "We're saving you" hype in the UK just prior to the election.

Disgusting!
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 3:12 am
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Don't worry, its been well noticed here..... its great to have a sceptical media, whose first question was "isn't this all a bit co-incidental?" to which all governement minsters went "oh we don't know where the story has come from..."

Incidentally, nobody has corroborated it yet, looks like someone's Westminster spin got a bit out of control.

As for the id thing, the most distressing thing is that it will double the price of renewing a passport from 40 to 80 never mind the civil liberties, thats a lot of money, and I think what will ultimately stop it going ahead.... families aren't going to be able to afford it!
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 6:04 am
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Originally Posted by Jenbel
Don't worry, its been well noticed here..... its great to have a sceptical media, whose first question was "isn't this all a bit co-incidental?" to which all governement minsters went "oh we don't know where the story has come from..."
It's great to have a skeptical public, too! The U.K. has that; the U.S. does not. Far too many Americans believe that anything done in the name of "security" is just fine. Strip naked in Central Park? Sure, if it keeps me safe! A nation of idiots!

Bruce
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 6:45 am
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Originally Posted by bdschobel
It's great to have a skeptical public, too! The U.K. has that; the U.S. does not. Far too many Americans believe that anything done in the name of "security" is just fine. Strip naked in Central Park? Sure, if it keeps me safe! A nation of idiots!

Bruce
We are skeptical of the government..very few believed Tony before the war, and even fewer believe him now. But I don't think we'd be any better on security things though - the British are great believers in queues and uniforms I think the big complaint about the introduction of the id thing would be the cost, not the civil liberties of it all - although questions are being asked in the media about why if it is good for preventing terrorism a) why didn't we have them sooner (after all, we had a terrorist campaign for about 20 years... ) and b) why if it is so effective, was there a terrorist attack in Spain, which already had id cards.

The other point to consider is that with an election due next year, this programme outlined in the Queen's Speech is not going to be implemented.. I don't think ID cards are going to go away, as Blunkett (spit) has been pushing them for years now, but there are other measures listed which won't see the light of day.
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 6:50 am
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Angry Enough about IDs, already!

When are the various "security" agencies going to get over their ID fetish? Observing that somebody has an ID tells you absolutely nothing about what's going on inside his head. Osama bin Laden probably has an ID somewhere. I guess he can wander around unmolested!

All kinds of vicious people have IDs. Charles Manson had one. So did Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, etc. Even OJ has an ID. Does that make them OK?

Get over it already.

Bruce
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 8:46 am
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Originally Posted by bdschobel
When are the various "security" agencies going to get over their ID fetish? Observing that somebody has an ID tells you absolutely nothing about what's going on inside his head. Osama bin Laden probably has an ID somewhere. I guess he can wander around unmolested!

All kinds of vicious people have IDs.
Imagine a US 'national ID' implemented several years ago....

some people who would have carried one:
Timothy McVeigh
John Allen Muhammad
Ted Kazinsky

some people who would not have been required to carry one:
Ramzi Yusef
Mohammad Atta

I think that about covers the "keeping us safe" notion.
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 8:53 am
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Originally Posted by Wally Bird
Imagine a US 'national ID' implemented several years ago....

some people who would have carried one:
Timothy McVeigh
John Allen Muhammad
Ted Kazinsky

some people who would not have been required to carry one:
Ramzi Yusef
Mohammad Atta

I think that about covers the "keeping us safe" notion.
^ There is only one purpose to the ID fetish -- restricting freedom and collecting information for corporate interests. (Okay 2 purposes.)
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 8:59 am
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Originally Posted by bbc1969

The plot is said to have involved pilots being trained to fly into
target buildings including London's famous financial centre and the
world's busiest airport.
What kind of shoes were they wearing?
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 11:21 am
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Originally Posted by whirledtraveler
What kind of shoes were they wearing?
stylish pumps with a 3inch heel...
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