New security realities ground plane watcher
 

Lansing State Journal Article

"But on Friday, Ball said, a different officer ordered him to leave. Ball described the encounter this way:

"He said there was a federal law that I couldn't observe aircraft from that place.

"I asked, 'Where, then?'

"He said, 'No place.' He said there was a law that I couldn't observe aircraft."

Actually, it's not a federal law. It's part of Capital City Airport's security plan, approved by the federal Transportation Security Administration.

In any case, Ball didn't believe it.

"I thought the new airport director wanted to interact with the public - not turn us away...

... What do you think? Call John Schneider at 377-1175, send a fax to 377-1298 or e-mail [email protected]"

I hope this guy sues the director of the airport. This is nothing but harassment. :mad:

When I lived in Maryland, we used to do the same thing at BWI off of Dorsey Road south of the airport. In fact, they even turned it into a small park with paved parking spaces and a little playground for kids. Don't know if it's still there in the wake of 9/11.

Can't do that here in San Antone. Airport security has nothing to do with it, but private security does. Most of the airport is bordered by industrial parks, and it's the private security guards working for these private enterprises who are enforcing trespassing laws rather than anything related to finding a nice spot to watch airplanes land and take off.

From what I sent Jon Schneider (Schneider wrote the piece, he's not an airport official):

I just wanted to let you know that I think the Capital City Airport
shouldn't be pushing Robert Ball around. It seems from your
description that Ball was parked outside the airport grounds, and so I
can't understand how the airport security plan would have any force
there at all.

This is part of a very scary trend of forbidding U.S. citizens from
watching or photographing what goes on in public places. I worry for
the day when my children are taught to keep their heads down, not to
look directly at any of the officials, any of the vehicles, any of the
buildings, et cetera. Is Ball a suspected terrorist because he looks
too closely at the world around him?

This is not my America.

Access to private property is much different than access to public property.

Very nice! I certainly agree. ^

Bruce

---

It is so sad to see what is happening to us now! :(

I would surely hope that the answer to the question "Is Ball a suspected terrorist because he looks too closely at the world around him?" is a resounding "NO!", yet...

Here's the contact info for this un-American airport director if you'd like to send him a mail/email to tell him where he can shove his secret directives and/or citations of fictional laws prohibiting innocent, perfectly legal behavior on public property outside of LAN:

Robert F. Selig, A.A.E.
Executive Director
Capital City Airport
Lansing, MI 48906
Phone: +1 517 886 3711
Fax: +1 517 321 6197
Email: [email protected]
www.flylansing.com

info from http://www.boeing.com/commercial/noi...ital_city.html

Someone should sue this SOB and his po-dunk airport authority for everything they're worth.

I think a LAN (just off-site) Photo-do might be in order to make a point to Mr. Selig that he is not free to attempt to make up rules/laws and push people around.

Go ahead and try to run me off public property, Mr. Selig. ;)

Interestingly, I drove around LAX a couple months ago -- I'm kind of an airplane buff and used to park in the South cargo area at ORD to watch 9L and 32L activity (apparently that is verboten now) -- anyway, I noticed that south of LAX, on the other side of Imperial Highway, there is a hill that overlooks the airport and it appeared that there were plenty of folks up there watching. Looks like "Imperial Hill" is a popular (and still open) spot, if you search the pics on airliners.net.

Sooooo... my point is how idiotic this policy is at LAN. The explanation for the plane spotting paranoia is that somebody might try to shoot down a plane... uh huh. And they're going to go to LAN and nail a CRJ when they can go to LAX, stand on top of a hill and catch wide bodies during rotation...

Train spotters are getting a lot of the same treatment, but it seems like "regulars" are seen more as security assets by the railroads because they tend to be creatures of habit and hang at the same spots and are going to notice things out of the ordinary.

My understanding is that if you did want to shoot a shoulder-launched missile at an aicraft that being right at the end of the runway would not be the best place to do it from. It's MUCH easier to miss!

That's right. You want the missile to be traveling in the same direction as the plane, approaching from behind. Shoulder-fired missiles are primarily heat-seeking, although some have other ways of homing in on their targets. Heat-seekers will go right up an engine, but not when fired from in front of a plane. Most will miss from that direction, and -- unlike in cartoons -- missiles cannot turn around!

Bruce

There is a cool little park along the Potomac just off the fence of the north side of the runway at DCA. Great place to watch take offs and landings. People there with cameras all the time.

Agreed that this "policy" is asinine and wrong.

Ever been pulled over for speeding by a small-town cop with nothing else to do? Sounds like what we've got here. I can sit underneath the final approach to 24R at LAX to my heart's content, but not at LAN. Sounds like yet another case of small-town law enforcement going on a power trip.

Living near LAN, there isn't really any good place to watch the planes, and there certainly aren't that many flights in a day.

I remember reading somewhere else that people would sit in a In and Out burger somewhere in California and have a great view.

The In-and-Out near LAX is a great and farily well-known planespotting spot. Driven by many times but never stopped/eaten there. (I've got a friend from who's livingroom window I can watch/photograph planes on approach to 24R/L, so I don't bother. Which points out how silly and impractical this type of photography restriction is; some people can engage in this "suspcious" activity from their own homes, and law-enforcement has no hope of detecting them.)

This Selig guy at LAN is apparently an un-American with no respect for civil liberties or understanding of the actual risk posed by innocent behavior on public property. I hope he is terminated and sent on a fact-finding trip to the former East Germany and the current North Korea (at his own expense of course).