Gate screening moved to the checkpoints
 

Selectees are here to stay. TSA has no control over who is and is not one it is the airlines computer system that picks you. TSA only controls the continuous screening.
The procedure you encountered is not at all airports yet but will be, that is the reason for the non-uniformitty throughout all airports.

I will continue to oppose any kind of selectee system. It's a total farce that adds nothing to security. I hope your management that instituted this disgraceful procedure (airline computers? right. How many selectees per day were there pre-9/11? 3? 4?) is sacked. If your agency's future leaders don't eliminate it, I hope your disgrace of an agency will then be disbanded permanently.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Spiff...you know good and well that the airlines determine how many "selectees" they choose. On charter flights they pick them by hand, marking the boarding passes at random. The TSA has ZERO control over that and you should take that up with your favorite airline.

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Don't take life too seriously, afterall, you won't get out alive.

I was a contract screener at United and when we did gate screening, there were selectees. At the gate,the agents sent them over to be screened, if there weren't any, then we picked at random to keep screening until the gate was closed. Sorry to disappoint you. Yes, the TSA pisses some people off, but it makes a whole lot more people feel better about flying.

That is the problem with TSA... They make people feel better about flying (Mom, DAd, GrandPa..everyone who will only fly once or twice a year) but in reallaty don't do anything constructive to make it safer.

TSA is just a lot of "window dressing" that is really a pain in the a$$ and costs a fortune in tax dollars.

Then please explain why there are tons of selectees now and almost none prior to 9/11. Answer: the TSA is forcing the airlines into selecting passengers. Hardly something that can be blamed on the airlines, though I often wish they would get together and tell the TSA: NO!

Also please explain why if there aren't enough selectees to keep the wand wizards happy at the gate, the wand wizards will pick their own selectees.

It's a stupid, flawed process that does nothing for security except make the so-called "security" folks look busy without having to work in the food court. The people at the TSA who forced the airlines to participate in this disgraceful, un-American process should be shot. Or sent to a country that "randomly" checks up on its comrades, er citizens.


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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Wow, that's just great. The TSA is the placebo of travel. No real medicinal (security) properties, but it makes people think something good is happening.

Why don't we just give these nervous nellies bong hits instead of using other means of deluding them into thinking there's real security at work here? It would be a lot cheaper and would allow us to keep our dignity instead of having to participate in the disgusting harassment that occurs now.

Welcome to FlyerTalk, jewelrygoddess.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited Nov 18, 2003).]

Spiff, before you go off on one of your rants again, the TSA has no, zero, nada control over how many "selectees" the airlines pick. It is fully up to them. I have seen ticket agents make someone a "selectee" even though the computer did not make them so. The selectee program is the airlines baby and they set the criteria for it. I have seen airline personnel deny boarding to ticketed passengers who were not selectees and IMO did nothing to justify it. Does the TSA have ANY authority to overrule the airlines in these matters? Nope. Screeners cannot make someone a non-selectee if the airlines have so annointed them. Nor can they override the airlines in the event they deny boarding to anyone.

As for the "wand wizards" working the gates, thats up to the local FSD and is his decision. Ours wanted us to do the same thing, but we seldom had the extra people to have a gate team, so he was SOL.

Un-American? Should be shot? Deported? hmmmm Strong words coming from a "Libertarian." Is this the "party" line or just your personal feelings? I see so much vilification coming from our "Libertarian" friends that I fear that if they ever do win election that the ovens will glow red at night as they burn off those who are not of the "party." What is your party number Spiff? I think you will find it on your "papers."



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Don't take life too seriously, afterall, you won't get out alive.

Your third paragraph makes me wonder if you've been enjoying a few bong hits yourself.

Anyway, if the selectee program is all the airlines, how come a GA cannot deselect someone? How come the GA can not overrule a screener who has grabbed someone? I don't believe for a second that the TSA is without blame in this tragic act of the sham security circus.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Unless you have the SSSSSS on your BP avoiding the "random gate screening" was/is very easy to do. Keep stepping back in line until the Goosestepping Goons are all occupied. Then board. If your traveling with anyone and you have SSSSS on your BP. Hand all your carry-on to your partner. Thus not really being screened. Where is the safety in this? It's just busy work.

The TSA's "in the name of safety" policy is a joke. As is removing your shoes, leaving your luggage unlocked, and showing id/bp more than once within 3-70 feet of security.
It's just busy work.

Barking to FF's (in the elite flyer's security line) that they must remove their laptops, asking each FF with a bag (as they approach their turn) if there is a laptop in there is insulting. It's just busy work.

Being unaccountable for anything that might happen and inspecting luggage without notifying the owner further erodes any respect this joke of an agency might deserve.

Every day that goes by one more person is wiser to the "fleecing" we get from the TSA. Hopefully soon, that next person will be an attorney with time on his hands. Or another Congressperson that doesn't like being groped by dirty gloved, goosestepping goons.

Welcome to FT J-Go......

Please leave your luggage unlocked....

The GA cannot deselect anyone because that would create a "hole" in the system. Yes, there are plenty, but if the GA could do that, then he/she could be "bought off" and deselect someone who "might" have nefarious intent. I am not saying that is the only reason, but it is one of them. The TSA has the authority to increase the number of "selectees" as it sees fit, but it cannot go below the number set by the airlines.



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Don't take life too seriously, afterall, you won't get out alive.

Then your proposition that the TSA has nothing to do with the selectees or the number of selectees is also, er... full of holes. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Thats an airline rule Spiff. It was in place before 9-11. Sorry, but those holes have to be plugged or you might get some witty barbs up to the checkpoint and cause some poor screener some real grief. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif



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Don't take life too seriously, afterall, you won't get out alive.

The TSA would never do anything as un-american as to be bought off... especially nefariously. After all they are protecting us. Some of them even served in the armed forces.


BTW- You don't work for the TSA anymore. How are you so well informed these days
Mr. All American? Ever heard of loose lips sink ships...

Your previous employer (TSA) is a joke and should be replaced with the Private sector.

No I don't work for them anymore. However, I have over a years experience delving into their policies and procedures plus I keep in contact with the friends I made while working for them. Does one forget how to drive a car because of an expired license? What experience with them do you have besides that of a passenger? None.

You can rant all you want and mimic Spiff's "un-american" theme all you want, but that does not make it so. It is merely your opinion.

As for the "private screeners" you clamour for, if and when that ever does happen, guess whose faces you will see at the checkpoint? The SAME faces you see now, the TSA is not going anywhere anytime soon. You will have worn your fingers down through typing your daily rant before then. The TSA will still be setting policy and procedures to the "private" screeners so you will notice no real changes. Feel free to rant and rave though, it is quite amusing and brings out the true person, Spiff advocating the deportation and or shooting of screeners now. Whats next, gas chambers and ovens? Un-American indeed.....



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Don't take life too seriously, afterall, you won't get out alive.

Go back and read my post carefully. I said:

The people at the TSA who forced the airlines to participate in this disgraceful, un-American process should be shot. Or sent to a country that "randomly" checks up on its comrades, er citizens

I don't suppose screeners are now in charge of making policy now??? http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/confused.gif I am referring to Loy and Mineta and their ilk. Our nation executes those who commit treason - Loy and Mineta are guilty of nothing less than that. However, I would be happy to ship them off to North Korea instead where they and the other filthy communists should get along famously.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Despite inaccurate posts by alleged TSA employees (or ex-employees), Norm Mineta vastly expanded the number of gate-groped individuals following September 11. In more than 25 years of frequent flying, I had never been "randomly selected" by anyone for a frisking prior to boarding. Post-September 11, it happened many times.

The FAA (and now TSA) directed the airlines to designate the SSSS selectees. Post-September 11, the number increased exponentially.

Additionally, the screeners selected passengers for the gate grope if there were not enough SSSS selectees.

"Barking to FF's (in the elite flyer's security line) that they must remove their laptops, asking each FF with a bag (as they approach their turn) if there is a laptop in there is insulting. It's just busy work."

Whats also insulting is having those same FF'
s keeping their laptops in their bags, then yelling at a TSA screener when he/she has to check it. And their excuse? "You didn't tell me that!"

Or the FF that walks up and says i know what Im doing and then walks thru setting off the walkthru because he/she forgot their cellphone or keys in their pocket. Then getting upset because they don't get a second chance or because, again, "YOU DIDN"T TELL ME THAT!".

Oh and if you want to give me some lame example of how people only do that unless their FF"s. Had a FF that everyone at my checkpoint hates having to screen, ring. He pretty much accused me of picking on him when he rang. So we get to the wanding area.

When I screen his shoes, they ring and I ask him to take them off. He throws them into the ground nearly hitting me in the bounce ( I had to move back from the guy not to be hit). He then goes on to ***** me out about how his shoe never set that machine off.

At this point my attitude went from just listening to the guy to losing it because he started to insult and about that time I noticed the cell phone on his belt.

So I told the guy to look at his waistline. He does and finally notices his phone. I pretty much told the guy off when he tried to apologize to me to and was lucky not to get a complaint form about it because my choose words werent exaclty the best.

You may be a FF CarmelGreg and might remember everything you might have to do, but not ever FF does and we get a lot of rings because they leave change in their pockets because they just bought coffee or they leave palm pilots they just got in jacket pockets and so on.

Loose lips sink ships. Guess you HAVEN'T heard that one. In the name of safety, please don't talk to you "friends". O.K....


I was actually attempting to mimicking you (as you do to others) from an earlier post here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...ML/000307.html

Where you say:

Thats the problem with the TSA's Goon mentality. I'm not just a passenger I'm also the customer, I guarantee it!! The TSA needs to understand, like the IRS needed to. We are the Customer.

Bong hits? Where?

screenerx:
We are customers. Without us (the customer) the TSA does not exist. That is the bottom line. It appears from the TSA posters at FT and the TSA folks I've witnessed the TSA folks think they're doing us the "Passenger" a freakin favor. Everything in the name of safety. Throw out common sense in the name of safety. We are not only passengers we're customers.

The TSA security is a smoke and mirror show. A joke. Unworthy of the powers bestowed.

Hey!! I resemble that remark.... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif


Sludge

I have absolutely no problem with the resolution of alarms. It's the secondary harassment with no alarm that I am completely opposed to.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Spiff,

That isn't the point of the post. CarmelGreg said he found it insulting to have TSA agents announcing or yelling for people to take laptops out in the FF line.

I brought the second part of that argument to light. Not all FF's remember to do so.

As not all FF's remember to take their cell phones and such out of their pockets.

Now if screeners weren't verbally abused by some of these guys when they ring because of it we might just keep our mouths shut. But as FF's seem to love to do it to us when they screw up, we found reminding you seems to work.

CarmelGreg,

I understand that. But I also understand that its our job to process you folks in a timely matter. Now when you guys come up and don't take laptops out or don't empty your pockets, you as the customer delay other customers.

The best way we have found to do this is, to make annoucments, to all lanes, about what to do. Just because you know, doesn't mean you all know.

BTW, Just because your the customer doesn't mean I have to put with verbal insults that are unwarrented against me or phyiscal assaults against me.

[This message has been edited by screenerx (edited Nov 18, 2003).]

With all due respect, the law provides:

If the verbal insults you receive constitute activity prohibited above, then you are correct. But let's be honest here - mere verbal insults don't constitute interference, assault, threats or intimidation. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

You are correct about the physical assault. You don't have to put up with that.

I felt pretty ****ing intimidated when a big weightlifter started telling me to go **** myself when I stopped him after he beeped. He didn't fly that night.

Why not post the Canadian statute for us to read?

We didn't stop him, the airline refused him for the night and rebooked him for the next morning. As for the statutes, I don't believe we have any special authority regarding abusive but non-threatening passengers. The airlines seem to be pretty good about handling those types informally. The RCMP could probably charge the abusive party with "breach of the peace" if they were so inclined.

[This message has been edited by CATSA Screener (edited Nov 18, 2003).]

There is a new book, [i]Passenger Behavior[/] (Bor, ed.) that discusses some of the issues pertaining to post-September 11 security. The book referred to the reasons why security is so hard on passengers:

• It reminds us of the risk of terrorism
• It's intrusive, even embarassing
• Passengers are kept on the defensive--one is guilty until proven innocent.

Furthermore, it's so unpredictable. Will my watch set off the alarm at this concourse? Is this a "shoes on" or "shoes off" checkpoint? Will I be pulled aside in front of everyone? The psychological burden can be overhwelming for passengers.

I know that I dread security screening--perhaps more than I should. The current strategies are expensive, time consuming, and not necessarily effective.

As far as "barking orders" goes, it's horrible. But that problem predated 9/11. I wish that the TSA would recognize what I learned when I worked at JFK: you will never get a message across to a line of people by yelling. You have to actually walk down the line and talk to small groups of people.

The ID mess is ridiculous. But that may change one day. If the TSA can get rid of the security questions, they can get rid of excess ID inspections.

And I agree with all of you--increasing the number of selectees is misguided. All of the September 11 terrorists were selectees. The old system worked. They carried no forbidden articles on board, so our screening was up to par for the standards in place at that time.

As I've said again and again, if you're looking for colon cancer, you don't pick ten people at random out of the waiting room and give them colonoscopies.

Although I find myself making this mistake, I try not to get upset with the screeners themselves. They're just doing their jobs. It's a tough job market, and I'm sure that most would rather have different jobs. I'm mad and frustrated with the local security directors and Federal regulators--they seem to operate in complete isolation, with no oversight nor accountability.

Screener, why waste your time with these people. If they don't comply they don't fly. That's all. You are not there to take abuse from these idiots. You follow the policies and procedures, if they don't like it there is always greyhound.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I detect instant negativity from this one

I suspect for the same reason you decided to join. To turn a board made for FF into another TSA "for disgruntled BUT dedicated" employee chatroom.

Hope I never run into you either......


[This message has been edited by CarmelGreg (edited Nov 18, 2003).]

TSAMGR,

If you would like me to explain that further feel free to contact me another way. There are a few reasons. I understand that these people have a right to be upset and don't mind them venting to me.

I honestly like working with the public. Esp. the older gentlement and ladies, because they have such great stories to tell. Business folks can be some funny people to. You get to meet very interesting people, when their willing to talk.

But that doesn't change my mind of getting a new job. I don't agree with a lot of the procedures anymore.

I sincerely hope you are one of the first people fired when security is re-privatized.

"Don't comply, don't fly?" Joe Stalin or Adolph Hitler would be so proud of such a filthy, un-American statement.

Once you're on the street where you belong, I hope greyhound is all you can afford to use to travel. You are a disgrace.



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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

If you really feel harassed at the airports are you doing anything about it? or just whining? Here is the address for the head guy at TSA. [email protected] or [email protected] Well he did such a good job at TSA he got himself promoted to Tom Ridges right hand man. He is still "acting" adminstrator until they appoint another Administration Leader. You as a tax paying frequent flyer has more ability to get things changed than the screeners. I hope he gets bombarded with mail to the point he actually might do something about some of the problems. Good Luck and Happy Flying http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

Oh I can guarantee that Spiff has Jimmy's email address. Probably has his phone number on speed dial too. Spiff is on a personal crusade and I am sure he has taken the time to point out all the failings he sees in the system to whatever official will listen to him.

I actually wish him luck in these endeavors. However, I do think that he enjoys sparring on here an awful lot and would only find something else to rant about if the changes were made to suit him.

If you take the time, and do your homework, you can see through many of his arguments...4th amendment stuff, civil liberties, etc. Where he does have a point is the security aspect and now I see the customer service angle being played. Those will be harder to argue against, for they are valid points on the surface. Only time will tell, and Spiff seems to have a lot of that to spend.



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Don't take life too seriously, afterall, you won't get out alive.

The TSA/Dept. of Homeland INsecurity make the rules for how CAPPS selects passengers, not the airlines. The selection process was changed after 9-11. The airlines only operate the system.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

Another county not heard from in a long while.

Regardless, neither the screeners nor the ticket agents have anything to do with who is selected for further screening, nor can they override the computer. However, there is nothing that prevents the screening managers from increasing the number of those to be further screened, they cannot decrease it.

Wait till CAPPS II comes along, then there will be no argument over who controls that.



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Don't take life too seriously, afterall, you won't get out alive.

Actually, he was such a embarassment (a politically well-connected embarassment) that President Bush moved him up and out of the TSA instead of throwing him out like other incompetents have been in the past.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry