TSA shoved me, called me a "d**k head", and threatend to kill me!
 

Today I was traveling through Newark airport, I travel through this airport twice a week every week. I cleared through security and was heading toward my gate. By one of the closed security check points there were gathered a "gang" of 60 TSA agents having a meeting to update the "shoe" rules. I was standing on a walkway infront of the tv screens for arrivals and departures and I wanted to overhear the new rules. The man conducting the meeting saw me, as I stood in the public walkway, and said what I was doing. I said I was listening. He said this was a private meeting and to move along. I said this is a public space, I have every right to stand here and will not move and if he wants a private meeting not to hold it in a pubic area. Well we basically said the same things to each other a few times and he saw I wasn't going to move, so he went on with his meeting. Then his TSA thugs came over and harrased me. One invaded my personal space and stood right in front of me to block me view, saying "its a public space right" ( a true mark of the professional attitude). Another agent came by and said if I did not move they'd have to kill me! No joke. Another agent came by and asked me what country I was from. I'm not white, he was, and I feel he was playing a racial angle and he called me a "d*ck head". When the meeting ended, I kept my eye on this last TSA agent, he ran right into me intentionally shoving me. I knew he was trying to bait me, but I didn't take the bait. I took this man's name and badge # and the man who threated to kill me's badge #. At the end of the meeting the other 57 TSA agent taunted me saying, you want to join us in the back room?
I am planning to file a complaint with the TSA in Washington, the TSA in newark, the District Attorney in Newark, and the ACLU tomorrow. I belive since this was all on a walkway behind a check point that it is on airport video tape. I will not have my right to stand in a public space that I pay for taken way from me from the TSA SS storm troopers.
Besides the actions I have outlined, what should I do? Anyone have advice to contact the media or a lawyer who specializes in these matters? Thanks and stand up to oppression.

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Pictures are worth a thousand words ... or, as the case may be, thousands standing around. Tape recordings perhaps?

I too have witnessed these types of "meetings" held in public places. I actually considered doing what you did ... hanging around to observe.

I will make sure to have a ready means to record subsequent encounters, because of my interest, with our new government gestapo.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

What did they say about the shoe rule?

If you can't get it on tape, it will be your word against 60 govenment employees (who of course, have impecable standards of integrity </sarcasm> ).

Of course, if there is a tape... it will look great on the evening news!

You need to get the video tape ASAP before it is destroyed by "accident" or "routine tape rotation." You may have only days or even hours to do that. I'm not sure how to do that though with an airport.

you need to get a lawyer ASAP! only the filing of a motion with the courts will injunct the airport to keep a copy of the tape and protect it as evidence. You better do it fast, as the tape could be over-written quickly. I doubt anyone in the TSA has the brains to guess they were on candid camera and make the tape disappear, but you never know.

If the meeting was held in a public open space, then you had every right to stand there a listen. Sounds like you need to either call the ACLU for a lawyer referral, or find your own in a hurry. At the absolute very least, there should be some pink slips handed out as a result of this.

Keep us all posted...this could also be something for the media, if you move ahead with a suit.

I agree with you in the sense that the TSA employees shouldn't have threatened you in any sort of fashion, But, We all have these meetings at every airport. We call them briefings. Where we put out new policies and discuss situations that may occur and other various things. Now at my airport we are able to hold these in an office. Some airports have an office on site but will not hold 60 employees. So they have to have the meetings near the checkpoint. Yes it may be a public place, but, you are not an employee with the TSA and most of this information is Security Sensitive. I know it may sound funny to you guys, but to us it isn't. Some of us take our jobs seriously (for the moment), we are not allowed to divulge certain information out to the public. Alot of people also say that we haven't done anything to protect the skies. And to each his own. But we don't want everyone and their brother knowing we did it. We have had several occasions where we've had to have bags destroyed and people arrested and charged with carrying explosives. And the news crews were never contacted, and when most of the passengers in the area asked what was going on we said the person had suspicious items and it was being dealt with. Now if we went around telling everyone there was a bomb in a guys bag but not to worry....they would have rushed out of the building causing chaos or tried to stick around the scene to see it. Back to the subject at hand, I do think that the TSA employees handled the situation wrong. My solution would have simply been pausing the meeting and coming over and asking for your government ID and security clearance. And when you didn't produce it I would have you escorted out of the area. I wouldn't resort to threats or physical violence or name calling. To you, what you did may seem harmless. But think about it...some of this information we put out in briefings actually is for security clearance only. And should we let that information out into the public that could cost someone their job. Are you going to go into the CIA and ask them what they put out in their briefings? No. How about the FBI, or DEA maybe? I'm not trying to act silly, I just want to get a point across that yes the situation was handled wrong but whether you choose to believe it or not. You had no business listening in on their briefing.

Uhh, anyone uttering SSI in a public space where the public could overhear it if they walked by (even in an airport) should be reported to the IG of the TSA at once, especially if that person is conducting a briefing of TSA employees.

And as far as I know, telling people to "just move along" doesn't excuse the criminal offense of disclosing the SSI publicly.

So today I have sent the IG an email detailing the contents of this thread (and the other threads started by the OP) with a request that the TSA cease the public disclosure of SSI at our nation's airports.

The safety of our great nation depends on patriots willing to report such traitors.

Fenito, do me a favour and don't bother responding to this troll. You've been honest and open and he's just trying to bait you and the rest of us into a ridiculous argument.

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif

If in fact the situation took place as described, why would the TSA have a meeting where sensitive non-public-disclosable information is discussed in an open area where anybody could listen in? And it doesn't have to be somebody standing in a "public space" obviously doing the listening. My kid, an aspiring spy...at least this week anyway http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif has one of those directional microphones that picks up sound from a fair distance. Seems to me that a bad guy could surreptitiously listen in to these in-the-open TSA briefings with one of these.

My point exactly, which is why federal law prohibits the disclosure of SSI in such settings.

Either the briefing concerned no SSI (my gut reaction) or the person conducting the meeting should be punished for compromising our nation's welfare.

CATSA Screener: please don't be using the "troll" word so losely as it is sure to lower levels of communication.

Here's my two-cents. Given that airports and the situation that the screeners are put into with the physical plant of airports, I too have seem these public meetings and frankly no problem with the way they try and open lines of communications among that group. As for the listening, I personally think we need to give them room to do their job and listening in isn't in our best interest. This is not "reality security" where the guts of what is going on is all the fodder for discussion. Reminds me of when i was in retail and again with limitations of staffing hours and the physical plant of a store we often had to have staff meetings out on the sales floor. I didn't like it but would certainly have gotten sensitive if customers were listening in when we were discussing the latest shoplifting situations.

My personal opinions are just that, but my professional opinion on how we address other members is very much worth listening to: please try and limit the use of the verb: "troll"

How about this point of view.

Guy tries to eavesdrop on the conversation.

TSA guy says move along,TSA move him off trying to be funny " it's a public space right "

Friendly "what Country are you from" it is an Airport after all and " we'll have to kill you " is a bad joke I've used several times.

The banter turns bad cos some TSA guy calls him a ........ and runs into him into him and suddenly it's racist.

Sounds more like a playground squabble beteeen a couple of kids not grown Adults.

Nigel

Agreed. It's to be expected of the former part-time low-wage private screeners, but not of the new professionalized, federalized screening force. And certainly not from the guy running the meeting (as alleged by the OP). http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/eek.gif

Obviously you did not read my response very closely. As I said, in some airports they do not possess the facilities to conduct a briefing in an enclosed area away from the public. For our checkpoint screeners we use a gate area that has been closed down which public doesn't have access to. If we could fit 100 screeners into our small onsite office we would. But it barely holds our 30 some baggage screeners for briefings. I will argue all day long if that's what you really want to do. I would rather just get my point across that maybe they didn't have a choice as to where they could conduct their briefing and it really isn't any of your business trying to listen in. And should someone be caught trying to listen in I'm sure it would be handled accordingly.

Fenito -

Thanks for sharing your contributions as it provides a view from the TSA side. IMHO, what the TSA screeners allegedly did to the OP was not only wrong, but extremely unprofessional. Perhaps even illegal, depending upon exactly what happened with the verbal threats & the extent of the physical assult. If a passenger said such a thing to a TSA agent and/or pushed / purposely ran into an agent, I suspect the passenger would be in jail. Double standards like these are wrong.

I understand there are physical plant constaints at airports to where there might not be a private area for such (larger) meetings to be conducted. I would suspect such facilities exist at EWR; however, if such a meeting is to be held where SSI is being discussed and no reasonable private accomodations are available at the airport, it is in my opinion the meeting should be moved off-site to a facility that has the space for a private meeting. Most airports have hotels and other businesses nearby which provide such facilities.

Personally I feel the OP had the right to stand there and listen to what was being said in a public location. At the same time, I believe it may of been done in poor taste (especially after he was asked to move on). At the same time, I believe the OP did have the legal right to be there as long as he was not interfering with or disrupting the meeting. His mere presense nearby does not constitute interference or disruption (unless he was shouting / making noise / etc).

Beyond that, it's difficult for me to comment further as I wasn't there and didn't see what happened... but if what the OP said is true, in regards to what happened to him, it was wrong and I would expect to see action taken against the employees involved.

Other government agencies, such as the FBI, DEA, etc., do not hold meetings where sensitive / confidential information is dealt with in public places (that I am aware of at least). I understand where you are coming from, but I also undertand the views of the OP.

Given the current state of affairs and the current mess with the TSA, I'd be willing to bet many passengers would be interested in listening into such meetings if they could. People are curious -- it's human nature.. people are nosey as well... and personally I'd probably be interested in hearing what was said too.

No offense to you, but the TSA is an agency which is completely out of control in many ways. It's expensive window dressing and a large waste of taxpayer money, IMHO. At some level, it is an improvement upon the old security, but in many ways it is much worse when it comes to the respect of passengers, their privacy, and civil liberties. There are many great TSA employees, but there are also many not so great ones -- but worst of all is TSA management and the way the agency is operated from the top.

In closing, based on your comments, I get the impression you're a hard-working, dedicated employee who takes your job seriously, yet you respect passengers. I get the impression security is well operated at your airport -- and I'll admit there are some airports where the TSA has a great operation -- but unfortunately such facilities are few and far inbetween.

Best,

SDF_Traveler

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

Heaven forbid !!

Just use "Goose-Stepping Nazis" next time. Seems like it's been deemed OK for LIBERAL use. Especially where TSA employees are concerned. Right Spiff ?? http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif

I appreciate your comments SDF_traveler. It is true that the pax had every right to stand there as long as they weren't disturbing the meeting, but once asked to leave they should do so. It may be a public place but you have to respect those in charge. And yes, I understand the idiocy of saying the TSA is in charge but it's true. Lets say you were parked on the side of a road and an officer said you had to move along because they were going to need that space for something, and you said "F" you it's a public place. What do you think would happen? Just trying to sum it up there. But indeed they handled the situation completely wrong. They should have asked the gentleman to move along and if he refused get law enforcement to remove him. I'm sure many people would want to hear what we talk about. But believe it or not, we do have security sensitive information that cannot be discussed and shouldn't be discussed in public. Some things I could care less about telling the public because it wouldn't do any harm. But some things we just can't discuss and people don't understand that because of the current way TSA operates. If we were 100% consistent and 100% professional people wouldn't mind the security. But because of the way we operate now, I can understand why people do not take us seriously when we say we can't divulge security sensitive information. I'm glad I am able to shed a little light on the TSA side of things. I will always be as much help as I can.

Listening into someone else's conversation is rude but there is law enabling the police, FBI, TSA, or even the Secret Service to enforce courtesy.

On the other hand, discussing classified information where it can be overheard *IS* illegal.

(About a year ago, I was on a domestic Israeli flight sitting next to a very high ranking police officer. He actually took out a multi-page document marked, in Hebrew, "Top Secret" and started to read it!
I saw the classification on top of one of the pages and asked him if that was permitted. He looked very embarrassed, admitted that it wasn't, and put the document away. If I had shown him my press card, he probably would have gone into a panic.)

The point of all of this: No matter what problems the TSA might have in getting private rooms, it is their responsibility to keep secrets -- not that of civilians in the area.

I agree, but with a situation where the TSA has no control over the buildings construction, there isn't much they can do. So they have to improvise. And yes I do know that releasing classified info to public is illegal. I currently have 15 family members in various agencies within the government including CIA, FBI, DEA, FAA and military. So needless to say I know a little about the repocussions of spilling your guts. But at every airport where TSA handles security, they have no control over the way the building was constructed. They can however submit plans to add an office or something, which has to be approved by the airport authority and a design team has to be brought in and blah blah blah which takes time. So until they get that done, they can't do anything about it except use the facilities they have. That is the only point I am trying to get across. Yes I agree that giving out sensitive info in public is illegal but in this situation, once the pax was asked to leave and refused, it became a problem. The problem was handled very badly and unprofessionally. But it was still a problem.

NationalCCW - I agree with the TSA Rep calling you a ......... If I had been having a converstaion and someone like you was eavsdropping I would have called you much worse. They asked you to move long. You refused. You were rude, so they were rude back. You can't have it both ways.

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Gaza's oneworld & Star Alliance Round the World Information Pages - www.rtw-info.co.uk

GAZA, I was wondering what would happen if he tried this in a British bar, one thing's for sure he wouldn't have heard the insults cos he would've been too busy at casualty http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif

Nigel

My guess is that this story never happened. The original poster made it up.

If security is to be taken seriously, it's of my opinion the meeting should have been held off-site at a location where the proper facilities exist -- especially if SSI was being discussed.

As I mentioned previously, there are many hotels & other facilities near most major airports which do have conference & meeting room facilities. Many airports (at least the airlines specifically which have lounges) also have conference & meeting rooms available (as part of their club/lounge facility) for use. While the TSA may not have direct access to them, I'm sure arrangements can be made. Having a meeting in the open where SSI is being discussed is reckless, IMHO.

For a general meeting where SSI is not an issue, I believe improvising with what you have is sufficient. When meetings such as these are held in a public area, one does have the right to listen if (despite it being rude & bad ettiqute) they remain in an open, public area, without creating a disruption.

I agree with much of what has been said from both sides - but if this incident did indeed happen, I hope corrective action is taken. It may of been wrong from an ettiqute standpoint to 'listen in', but hardly against the law. Two wrongs don't make a right, especially when one involves intimidation, threats, and/or assult.

The one thing that makes me somewhat doubt what actually happened is that the OP took no reasonable action at the time such as notifying law enforcement of the threat/assult. Perhaps the OP had his/her reasons not to, perhaps there is more (or less) to the story -- but as none of us were there, we can only speculate and comment based on what was posted.

Best,

SDF_Traveler

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin