What has the TSA really "Done"???
 

My topic speaks for itself.. Since the inception of the TSA after 9-11, what changes have REALLY been made to security going through the airport?

This is just one example of the TSA's "effectiveness"
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...3/BA196150.DTL

Guns still get through. Knives still get through. I'm sure things get through a lot more then is EVER known about..

Story time.. When I was a flight attendant, people would often ask if I am scared to do what I do. I'd simply respond "no". They'd ask what I think of the new security measures taking place to make the skies safer, and I'd try really hard not to laugh while being honest and saying "The new 'securtiy' measures in place after 9-11 do not make flying any safer. All the hype over new securtiy measures is done just so the flying public THINKS it's safer. It is no safer then before 9-11, if not less." I also get asked if I am scared of a terrorist on my plane. I just say that "after 9-11, the flight crew's greatest ally in the sky is not an air marshall, not our training, but the other passangers. People have seen what can be and WAS done on 9-11. They don't want that to happen again, and if someone starts acting really odd or whatnot, the passangers take notice, and a lot of times, action."


I try to understand how people can say to a TV news camera (in response to do you feel safe at the airport etc etc) "I am glad to see all these uniformed people there protecting me and my family." I really try hard not to grab a bag and puke. Let's keep in mind that THOUSANDS of these people who are "protecting" us have NEVER gone through the "mandatory" 10-yr background check. Let's keep in mind that these "protectors" still, to this day, take away a 5-yr-old's 2-inch tall plastic G-I-JOE figure becuase it is holding a "gun" that is no more than 1-2 cm long, if that. Let's keep in mind that these people can now LEGALLY ruin peoples luggage, without a note saying "we had to look in your bag/case/whatever" like they are SUPPOSED to do..

Oh- a little more for you about security in general. When the DTW base opened for Ryan last year, we had to go through security to get to the plane. For the first week or 2.. Then, we were "escorted" (said while laughing) through the back door of the office, the luggage staging area, and onto the tarmac where we walked right up to the planes, with no security escort or anything. ANY ONE OF US could have carried a gun or bomb or ANYTHING onto that plane, and no one would have ever known a **** thing.. The FAA realized this, near the end of the season, and we had to go through security again, but still. It makes you think..

Chris

[This message has been edited by N727NK (edited 06-14-2003).]

Thanks for this intelligent post. I am going to keep it here for the time being. But if the replies turn into a debate about airport security, I'm gonna move it to Travel Safety and Security where it will have a better home.

--richard, moderator

Thanks Richard, please do move it http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif MY bad http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

CHris

Maybe the TSA are used as.... intimidation figures.... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif

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Hailing from paradise, the 50th state -- the most isolated population -- the largest consumers of SPAM per capita -- home of the southern most point of the USA. Just a few things to be proud of www.gohawaii.com

N727NK,

I don't work in the air-travel industry, but my impressions agree with yours in every way. Thanks for being honest!

Bruce

And all of this is mandated by "your" elected officials.

We, the screeners, have no control of the procedures.

Hence the title of this thread; What has the TSA really "Done"?

It doesn't say what have the screeners really done. Please try to keep the two apart.

Great post. I think virtually every frequent flier I've ever known or met feels the same way.

Hey, it's our tax dollars hard at work, or hardly at work, right?

My guess is that you were one of "those" who thought that they were above everyone else and should have had "special rights" but got "right sized".

This is what you got for your tax dollars. Feeling safer yet??

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

tsadude, I don't think I am better than anyone.. I am accusing YOU and the TSA of thinking you are better then everyone else. I personally feel the TSA should be disbanded, as it is a waste of my tax dollars, and I hate having to pay a cent of your wages. It makes me sick.

Chris

Do you know tsadude ? I mean, do you know him/her personally ?

Hope you have LOTS of Pepto handy. Your going to be sick for awhile.

No, TakeScissorsAway, I do not know tsadude personally.. I draw my conclusion from his statement in his above post, which accuses me of thinking I need special favors for some odd reason. I never thought I needed special favors, and I was always willing to set a GOOD example for pax when I beeped for whatever reason. I get searched? Fine. That's the way it is. But I still think that the ThousandsStandingAround needs to be re-vamped or disbanded fast.. As do MANY others.

Chris

"“Story time.. When I was a flight attendant, people would often ask if I am scared to do what I do. I'd simply respond "no". They'd ask what I think of the new security measures taking place to make the skies safer, and I'd try really hard not to laugh while being honest and saying "The new 'securtiy' measures in place after 9-11 do not make flying any safer. All the hype over new securtiy measures is done just so the flying public THINKS it's safer. It is no safer then before 9-11, if not less." I also get asked if I am scared of a terrorist on my plane. I just say that "after 9-11, the flight crew's greatest ally in the sky is not an air marshall, not our training, but the other passangers. People have seen what can be and WAS done on 9-11. They don't want that to happen again, and if someone starts acting really odd or whatnot, the passangers take notice, and a lot of times, action."

I've been trolling the boards for quite some time, but felt that this time I had to speak up. I take real issue with your obvious dislike of the security measures currently in place. Why oh why would you, a flight attendant employed with a private, profit driven company, tell a paying customer/passenger that "The new 'securtiy' measures in place after 9-11 do not make flying any safer. All the hype over new securtiy measures is done just so the flying public THINKS it's safer. It is no safer then before 9-11, if not less." Your job as a flight attendant is to serve your passenger/customers, not stand on a soapbox and preach your personal views on travel security. I don't pay for your opinions, and neither does anyone else. I see many posters on this site that are so upset with the new security measures that they cannot see straight. The reality is simple and straight forward. TSA is here and it is not going away. Even if, and that's a pretty big if, privatized screeners are brought back in, the TSA still runs the show. The names and faces change, but the policies remain. Now I for one embrace our bill of rights and constitution just as much as the next person, and I am watching what is going on. However, my hipster days of non-pacifist activism are far over. If the gov't wants to screen me, then screen me. If they want to look through my bags, then by all means look. All I ask is that they be courteous and fair. So far, that's the only treatment I have received. Now I am expecting to be flamed quite extensively for not towing the "Frequent Flier" line by some of the characters on this board, but my opinion is just as valid as anyone elses. Gain some balance folks, there are far greater troubles in this world other than being screened at the gate. I leave you with the words of President Thomas Jefferson: "Delay is preferable to error." (May 16, 1792)

I go through the same lines as all of you and get searched. I wait in line actually observing what's going on and if I see people "standing around" I question that also. I hate worse having to pay taxes out of my check for the past 24 years (22 military).The real joke is that the airlines are still screwing the public with the bailout money they receive from the government and actually I see the taxes spent on the TSA as going back into the economy. You want to b1tch about taxes better see the whole picture where your money is going.

urlbuster, when people asked me (and, to be honest, people still do ask me even tho I am laid off) what I THINK of the new security measures, the TSA, etc etc, I give them an honest answer. In our training, we were told to be as HONEST AS POSSIBLE with the passangers. Several of us asked how honest, and the only thing we were not allowed to say is that someone died in-flight.. (If someone DID "pass on" in flight on one of ours, NO ONE was allowed to declare it until we landed and they could be declared dead on the bridge. Odd, but..)

You wrote: Yes, my job was to serve the pax, and NEVER ONCE did I just "stand on a soapbox" (or any other kind, for that matter) and "preach my personal views on travel security. Simple fact is, a lot of our flights WERE NOT VERY FULL. We were encouraged to TALK TO OUR PASSANGERS, and I did so. I woudl never bring up the security issue, but if a passanger asked, I gave them an honest answer. Not everone asked, but some did. And to be quite honest, if a crew member ever approaches you and tries to chat, you can tell them no. It's YOUR CHOICE. You may not pay to hear my or other crews opinions, that's fine by me. But some people actually LIKE discussing this kind of thing with crew. Helps them understand things one way or another. If someone disagrees, fine. They are entitled to disagree. Who knows.. I may be right, I may not. In the end, it's OUR OPINIONS. We all are entitled to them..

You also wrote:
I actually have a great deal more respect for you, because you DON'T tow the Frequent Flier line like a lot of people. And you are right. Your opinion IS just as valid as anyone elses.

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tsadude:
Then I salute you for that. I wish more people would. I ask you this. If a pax or crew were to see a TSA person standing around, and question it, what is the likely response to it? Lord knows I saw plenty of TSA standing around at DTW (Berry terminal) when I was always tehre. Some of whom could have opened the 2nd detector, instead of just standing there..

Chris

You'd likely be politely told to mind your own business, or perhaps rudely. In between pushes there really isn't anything to do besides stand around. Usually we get a ten-twenty minute push every hour or so and then they trickle in the rest of the time. At my checkpoint we have two lanes. We try to keep five or six people on during lulls and then during pushes when we have eight or more screeners available we can open the second lane. And we can't open the second lane until a supervisor tells us to.

CATSA Screener, You wrote:
I understand that in a lot of airports, especially ones that are not hubs, there are lulls/slow times/whatever, and then the rushes.. And I can understand why there may not be much to do when there are no pax coming through. But, during a rush, they were to be just standing around (I.E. they call for Female whatever, and the female screener person decides to take 5 minutes and finish her coffee before coming over. Yes, I saw it happen) what recourse do pax have to make sure they get "helped" in a timely manner? In some cases, 5 minutes can make or break your flight.

Chris

Well, I doubt you can motivate them on the spot so you'd probably just have to deal with it, but in that situation I'd be sure to speak to a supervisor. If you really were late then that would be out of the question and you'd just be screwed. I've never had that problem on my point. When I call for a female screener one arrives as soon as available. And if they did dawdle I'd give them a piece of my mind later away from the passengers. Nobody should be drinking coffee on the point.

IMO, the TSA and their stupid rules, which are always a knee jerk reaction AFTER the fact, are partially responsible for the airlines' financial problems. How many people now drive 6 hours rather than put up with the *security* hassles?

Flowerchild, that's a point I never thought of. I can tell you that if I can possibly do it, I'd rather fly, even if I can get there more "quickly" by car. I love flying. There are people who don't care one way or another, but a lot of people, IMO, that drive now do so because they don't want to deal with the lines/delays/etc and maybe missing an important event or meeting or something.. Can anyone here shed light?

Chris

As stated elsewhere, I now drive to EWR rather than deal with the TSA Morons in BOS.

There have been many other like statements from other members.

The canned response from our "Hard Working, Dedicated Public Servants" is THANK YOU for not flying.

Typical Arrogant Government hacks.

Only time I see them saying "thank you for not flying" is when one of you says something abusive and then blusters about not flying or something ever again.

[This message has been edited by CATSA Screener (edited 06-18-2003).]

The airlines have had worse financial troubles before.The TSA is way done the list.Maybe some right sizing at the top airline executive offices would help.

By that reasoning the TSA is also responsible for Jet blue reporting a 63% increase in revenues the first quarter of this year. No, you cannot blame the TSA for the airlines poor performance. Their poor management is more to blame. They were in trouble way before the TSA came along. Of course we won't let the truth get in the way of a good story now will we?

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"Be the inferior of no man, nor be the superior. Remember that every man is a variation of yourself. No man's guilt is not yours, nor is any man's innocence a thing apart." William Saroyan, American Playwright

Just to add a little more fuel to the fire..
I'm of the opinion that the TSA, though well intentioned has no vision or creativity in their approach towards security. All they are doing is closing barn doors after the horses leave the stable. Of course, that does prevent horses from leaving through that door again but it does nothing to prevent the horses from recruiting a rat to gnaw a hole through the wall.
The screening being done is based on past actions of terrorists, knives, guns and explosives and certainly will keep them from doing that again.
However, Al Quaeda and the terrorist network is a lot more sophisticated and creative than the TSA seems to want to give them credit for. They won't try the same way as before, they'll try something new and creative. My bet is that if most of us took the time we could think of 100 ways to get past or around the TSA with something destructive.
That is where I fault the TSA, they are focusing on the past while ignoring the possibilities of the future. All they are accomplishing now is; 1.) Making many flyers annoyed and driving business away from the airlines. 2.) Keeping honest people honest. 3.) Forcing the terrorists to take it to the next level.
I have no problem with the majority of TSA screeners. Most are dedicated and want to make a difference. It is their leadership who are failing us. Until they begin acting one step ahead of the terrorists rather than one behind, they add no real value to what we had before and are wasting my tax dollars.

I think a lot will. I'll drive up to 12 hours or more to avoid it. I know I'm not alone. We took a cruise last year and over 50% of the pax drove to the port, (Charleston) some from as far as Michigan and Texas. In discussions with people during the cruise, most drove to avoid flying because of the hassle factor.
Some did it to save money.