Please do not lock your luggage
Feb 15, 2003, 9:28 am
#166
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Given that the TSA is:
A Government Agency and one of the most wasteful agencies to come along in quite some time:
I bet they pay $10 a dozen for the little cable ties.
A Government Agency and one of the most wasteful agencies to come along in quite some time:
I bet they pay $10 a dozen for the little cable ties.
Feb 15, 2003, 11:34 am
#167
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 227
In larger airports (well, minneapolis, anyway), the machines in the basement are not, in any way, temporary. A significant amount of money has been invested in installing them and integrating them into the existing baggage handling conveyor system. The agent places your bags on the belt, they go downstairs, through the machine, and then on to the plane. I don't mean to make it seem like a joke, but I just don't see where a practical meeting place would be to resolve an alarm. I'm sure most passengers would find it very inconvenient to have to leave their gate prior to boarding so that they could go open their bag. I have a feeling that some (not most or even all) people find the current method time efficient and hassle-free.
[This message has been edited by tmspa (edited 02-15-2003).]
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:
Yes, I can imagine it if the little old lady had no objections. I certainly wouldn't. It is my understanding that the installation of these machines is temporary and the next step is to integrate them with the baggage handling system. At the very least, when this is done it should be done in a way that will allow passengers to be present for the searches. It is also my understanding that they have managed to do so in London airports. Perhaps the tSA should take a lesson from them.
I don't find this situation to be the least bit funny. Perhaps after you have had your belongings mishandled by a TSA baggage screener you may not either. And in my case, it was definitely a screener, not a baggage handler.
[This message has been edited by tazi (edited 02-15-2003).]
Yes, I can imagine it if the little old lady had no objections. I certainly wouldn't. It is my understanding that the installation of these machines is temporary and the next step is to integrate them with the baggage handling system. At the very least, when this is done it should be done in a way that will allow passengers to be present for the searches. It is also my understanding that they have managed to do so in London airports. Perhaps the tSA should take a lesson from them.
Yeah, that'll happen. Ha, Ha!</font>
I don't find this situation to be the least bit funny. Perhaps after you have had your belongings mishandled by a TSA baggage screener you may not either. And in my case, it was definitely a screener, not a baggage handler.
[This message has been edited by tazi (edited 02-15-2003).]
[This message has been edited by tmspa (edited 02-15-2003).]
Feb 18, 2003, 6:57 pm
#168
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 15,788
I'm sure one of you will correct me if I'm mistaken here...
Isn't there at least one airport where suspect bags are taken to a secure area and the -pax- is made to open them while the security folks remain safely outside of the area?
Our TSA seems to be fairly unconcerned about triggering the very devices they are searching for.
If I worked for the TSA that thought would scare the he11 out of me.
(spelling)
[This message has been edited by birdstrike (edited 02-18-2003).]
Isn't there at least one airport where suspect bags are taken to a secure area and the -pax- is made to open them while the security folks remain safely outside of the area?
Our TSA seems to be fairly unconcerned about triggering the very devices they are searching for.
If I worked for the TSA that thought would scare the he11 out of me.
(spelling)
[This message has been edited by birdstrike (edited 02-18-2003).]
Feb 18, 2003, 7:10 pm
#169
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The TSA people know perfectly well -- from experience, actually -- that the number of bags with real explosives inside is ZERO or so close to zero that it is effectively zero. They aren't the least bit worried and have no reason to be. They are FAR more likely to die in a car accident on the way home from work -- or even to be struck by lightning -- than to be killed by an exploding suitcase. Let's get real.
Bruce
Bruce
Feb 18, 2003, 7:41 pm
#170
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by birdstrike:
Isn't there at least one airport where suspect bags are taken to a secure area and the -pax- is made to open them while the security folks remain safely outside of the area?</font>
Isn't there at least one airport where suspect bags are taken to a secure area and the -pax- is made to open them while the security folks remain safely outside of the area?</font>
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin
Feb 19, 2003, 9:37 am
#171
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:
I will go out on a limb here and say, absolutely not. From what I have heard, you aren't even allowed to re-pack your checked baggage after it has been searched even if you are present.</font>
I will go out on a limb here and say, absolutely not. From what I have heard, you aren't even allowed to re-pack your checked baggage after it has been searched even if you are present.</font>
-b
Feb 19, 2003, 4:34 pm
#173
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 7
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:
They are under very little scrutiny from what I have seen. In addition to the theft problems with leaving your bags unlocked, you can add to the list that some TSA baggage screeners have no respect for the property of others. They do not take care to try and repack items so that they will not be damaged nor to the take care to make sure that everything that came out goes back in.
I agree completely with JPT. I have no problem with the screening but we should be allowed to be present to observe the search and to make sure how bags are locked afterwards.
</font>
They are under very little scrutiny from what I have seen. In addition to the theft problems with leaving your bags unlocked, you can add to the list that some TSA baggage screeners have no respect for the property of others. They do not take care to try and repack items so that they will not be damaged nor to the take care to make sure that everything that came out goes back in.
I agree completely with JPT. I have no problem with the screening but we should be allowed to be present to observe the search and to make sure how bags are locked afterwards.
</font>
Feb 19, 2003, 6:23 pm
#174
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RUOK_316:
You would have to arrive much sooner than the time you are told now for this type of search procedure. Are you willing to wait longer?
</font>
You would have to arrive much sooner than the time you are told now for this type of search procedure. Are you willing to wait longer?
</font>
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin
[This message has been edited by tazi (edited 02-19-2003).]
Feb 20, 2003, 6:31 am
#175
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ACES II:
I just do not think that the 4th amendment is being broken by screening of my or anyone elses bags whether they are present or not. If they were doing so without anyones knowledge, then I would agree with you.</font>
I just do not think that the 4th amendment is being broken by screening of my or anyone elses bags whether they are present or not. If they were doing so without anyones knowledge, then I would agree with you.</font>
So if the DOJ wanted to enter your house, search it, and leave it open when they left, that's be okay? So long as you knew it could happen? Let's go farther -- the DOJ gets to insulate themselves from liability arising from their actions, too. Someone entered your unlocked house after the DOJ left and stole your TV? Too bad.
I really don't think this is what you mean, but your logic argues in favor of this.
BTW, even though "everyone knew" about Japanese-American detainment during WWII, the US government still apologized and paid reparations. Seems to me that "everyone knows" isn't a valid legal leg to stand on.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ACES II:
Everyone knows up front that they are, so it is not "unreasonable" to accept that they are.</font>
Everyone knows up front that they are, so it is not "unreasonable" to accept that they are.</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ACES II:
From what I have seen and read, most of the larger airports have the CTX machines in place and those things do everything (sniffing, x-ray, and organic search {C-4, SYMTEX being organic}) without anyone opening the bag.</font>
From what I have seen and read, most of the larger airports have the CTX machines in place and those things do everything (sniffing, x-ray, and organic search {C-4, SYMTEX being organic}) without anyone opening the bag.</font>
Obviously, scanning does not preclude a physical search.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ACES II:
I have seen plenty of people watch while their bags are being searched at my local airport and seen the TSA guys lock their bags back for them. I guess things are different at other airports. </font>
I have seen plenty of people watch while their bags are being searched at my local airport and seen the TSA guys lock their bags back for them. I guess things are different at other airports. </font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ACES II:
Also from what I have seen, the TSA guys are always under a lot of scrutiny (cameras and such) so I would wonder when they would have a chance to steal anything since they screen and then turn the bags immediately over to the airline.</font>
Also from what I have seen, the TSA guys are always under a lot of scrutiny (cameras and such) so I would wonder when they would have a chance to steal anything since they screen and then turn the bags immediately over to the airline.</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ACES II:
Now I also have to ask, that since the TSA just took over the duties of the previos private screeners, did you rail against them in the same way or have you just reserved that for anything government related? They were checking bags before 1/1/03 manually.</font>
Now I also have to ask, that since the TSA just took over the duties of the previos private screeners, did you rail against them in the same way or have you just reserved that for anything government related? They were checking bags before 1/1/03 manually.</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ACES II:
Much more of a chance of something being stolen then due to a lack of oversight.</font>
Much more of a chance of something being stolen then due to a lack of oversight.</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ACES II:
I watched them go through my bag with a fine tooth comb once. At least the TSA does not always open my bag, they can screen it on the outside and have done so several times. The previous screeners had to open every bag they screened.</font>
I watched them go through my bag with a fine tooth comb once. At least the TSA does not always open my bag, they can screen it on the outside and have done so several times. The previous screeners had to open every bag they screened.</font>
Feb 20, 2003, 11:24 am
#176
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 7
"I don't believe I've suggested that TSA employees are swiping anything. I'm stating quite clearly that if your bags are unsecured, all sorts of people have their hands on them and have the opportunity to steal your stuff" There is a bigger problem here than you realize. If what you state is true about all sorts of people stealing, then the problem is with the airline employees. Most of these people have more clearence and access to airplanes than TSA staff. What else could they be doing?
Feb 20, 2003, 1:49 pm
#177
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RUOK_316:
There is a bigger problem here than you realize. If what you state is true about all sorts of people stealing,</font>
There is a bigger problem here than you realize. If what you state is true about all sorts of people stealing,</font>
I didn't say that it is happening, but I did indicate that there's greater potential there now.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RUOK_316:
then the problem is with the airline employees. </font>
then the problem is with the airline employees. </font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RUOK_316:
Most of these people have more clearence and access to airplanes than TSA staff. What else could they be doing?</font>
Most of these people have more clearence and access to airplanes than TSA staff. What else could they be doing?</font>
Feb 20, 2003, 2:02 pm
#178
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 7
"They wouldn't have the opportunity if our bags were secured, would they?" With the exception of hard case luggage, most bags can be entered by pressing an ink pen into the zipper teeth and then running the zipper back over the opened part to close it. It would not matter if a lock was on it or not. Use your second amendment rights and purchase a weapon and put it in your luggage(making sure you declare it)and it will have to be locked at all times.
Feb 20, 2003, 4:07 pm
#179
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RUOK_316:
[BUse your second amendment rights and purchase a weapon and put it in your luggage(making sure you declare it)and it will have to be locked at all times.[/B]</font>
[BUse your second amendment rights and purchase a weapon and put it in your luggage(making sure you declare it)and it will have to be locked at all times.[/B]</font>
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin