Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Travel Safety/Security > Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues
Reload this Page >

Dual-Citizen Canadians must have a Canadian Passport to fly to Canada

Dual-Citizen Canadians must have a Canadian Passport to fly to Canada

Old Feb 24, 20, 2:17 am
  #61  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Berlin, SW Florida, and Toronto
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Diamond, Discovery Black, and assorted others
Posts: 27,108
Originally Posted by percysmith View Post
No. As far as I can tell, an ancient convention, adopted by only 20 countries.

Originally Posted by kumagoro View Post
Hi, thanks for the link.

However, again the link refers to "carrying both passports". My son, due to Japanese law, is not able to get a Canadian passport issued. As soon as he does, he is in contravention of Japanese law and puts himself in danger of losing Japanese citizenship. If airport security or customs in Japan were to discover his Canadian passport (should he somehow obtain one) he would also be in potential legal trouble. Hence the Catch-22. To apply for special authorization, again he needs two passports.

A dual citizen without a Canadian passport is in legal limbo and not permitted to enter Canada if they are unable to get a Canadian passport before they travel. The Canadian government, and by extension Air Canada, is putting such people in a really difficult position. They basically have to choose which country's law to break if they want to travel.
This has nothing to do with Canada. Japan requires him to renounce his Canadian citizenship if he wants to maintain the Japanese. He is in no legal limbo.

Last edited by TWA884; Feb 24, 20 at 10:28 am Reason: FT Rule 14: Merge consecutive posts by the same member
LondonElite is online now  
Old Feb 24, 20, 2:32 am
  #62  
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Asia Miles. Not bothering to join Marco Polo.
Posts: 16,559
Originally Posted by LondonElite View Post
No. As far as I can tell, an ancient convention, adopted by only 20 countries.
Just 20?

But suffice to say, Canada is one of the 20, which is sufficient for this discussion (being in the AC forum)
percysmith is offline  
Old Feb 24, 20, 3:18 am
  #63  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Berlin, SW Florida, and Toronto
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Diamond, Discovery Black, and assorted others
Posts: 27,108
Originally Posted by percysmith View Post
Just 20?

But suffice to say, Canada is one of the 20, which is sufficient for this discussion (being in the AC forum)
I have read the full 1930 text. I do not believe that this is enshrined in any form of international law. Moreover, and from the outset, many of the articles are in direct conflict with current international law (viz Art 6, 8-11, etc).

Finally, I can find nowhere in that document a statement about entry requirements into a country of which one is a citizen to be only with that country's citizenship document. I can also find nowhere in current Canadian law a requirement that citizens must exit the country under their Canadian passport.
LondonElite is online now  
Old Feb 24, 20, 3:56 am
  #64  
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Asia Miles. Not bothering to join Marco Polo.
Posts: 16,559
Originally Posted by LondonElite View Post
I have read the full 1930 text. I do not believe that this is enshrined in any form of international law. Moreover, and from the outset, many of the articles are in direct conflict with current international law (viz Art 6, 8-11, etc).
OK. You perked up my interest to actually look up the 1930 treaty:

Text: http://eudo-citizenship.eu/Internati...ULL%20TEXT.pdf
Ratifiers: https://treaties.un.org/Pages/LONVie...r=30&clang=_en

You're right, probably not enforced outside the 20
(Did Canada denounce the 1930 treaty on 15 May 1996?!)

We shouldn't look at the 1930 treaty as the source of the Master Nationality Rule
We're down to local laws [see footnote].

Originally Posted by LondonElite View Post
I can find nowhere in that document a statement about entry requirements into a country of which one is a citizen to be only with that country's citizenship document.
Well not explicitly.

But by accepting the other state's passport for entry, the accepting state may be implicitly accepting the other state's request to afford the bearer "every assistance and protection" (Australian)/"such assistance and protection" (UK) as stated in the passport note? This may put the accepting state in a moral quandary even if not a strict legal one.

Furthermore it may put the accepting state in breach of consular treaties, unless it has explicit renunciation of dual nationality e.g. https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publicat...19-English.pdf

Originally Posted by LondonElite View Post
I can also find nowhere in current Canadian law a requirement that citizens must exit the country under their Canadian passport.
(I misread) exit no.

jazzsax probably did nothing wrong in law.

I wonder will CBSA have some red flags against his Jamaican passport for entry (how come this passport has exit records but no entry?)
But I suspect CBSA will never be presented the passport for entry, as jazzsax will present his Canadian passport for entry all the time.

===

[Footnote - side track]

i) USA enforces Master Nationality Rule even though it is not a 1930 treaty signatory

ii) I'm more familiar with the Australian and HK cases as both enforce the rule and are 1930 signatories

iii) PRC is not a 1930 treaty signatory but enforce Master Nationality Rule in a big way - to the extent they demanded Canadians they suspect to be Chinese citizens to obtain China Travel Documents to proceed to China https://www.scmp.com/news/world/unit...-beijing-think

iv) ROC is the 1930 China signatory but they disclaimed Article 4.
And I think they mean it - I am treated as an Australian in Taiwan, even though I can also be treated as a ROC Citizen outside Mainland Area.

Last edited by percysmith; Feb 24, 20 at 5:03 am
percysmith is offline  
Old Feb 24, 20, 4:17 am
  #65  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend and Moderator: Air Canada Aeroplan, Canada & Manufactured Spending
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Posts: 50,187
As this thread has become about dual citizens and passports rather than the case mentioned in the OP, this thread has been moved to Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues forum which is the appropriate venue for that discussion.

tcook052
Air Canada forum moderator
tcook052 is offline  
Old Feb 24, 20, 4:31 am
  #66  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Berlin, SW Florida, and Toronto
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Diamond, Discovery Black, and assorted others
Posts: 27,108
Originally Posted by percysmith View Post
OK. You perked up my interest to actually look up the 1930 treaty:

Text: http://eudo-citizenship.eu/Internati...ULL%20TEXT.pdf
Ratifiers: https://treaties.un.org/Pages/LONVie...r=30&clang=_en

You're right, probably not enforced outside the 20
(Did Canada denounce the 1930 treaty on 15 May 1996?!)

We shouldn't look at the 1930 treaty as the source of the Master Nationality Rule
We're down to local laws [see footnote].



Well not explicitly.

But by accepting the other state's passport for entry, the accepting state may be implicitly accepting the other state's request to afford the bearer "every assistance and protection" (Australian)/"such assistance and protection" (UK) as stated in the passport note? This may put the accepting state in a moral quandary even if not a strict legal one.

Furthermore it may put the accepting state in breach of consular treaties, unless it has explicit renunciation of dual nationality e.g. https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publicat...19-English.pdf



(I misread) exit no.

jazzsax probably did nothing wrong in law.

I wonder will CBSA have some red flags against his Jamaican passport for entry (how come this passport has exit records but no entry?)
But I suspect CBSA will never be presented the passport for entry, as jazzsax will present his Canadian passport for entry all the time.

===

[Footnote - side track]

i) USA enforces Master Nationality Rule even though it is not a 1930 treaty signatory

ii) I'm more familiar with the Australian and HK case as both enforce the rule and are 1930 signatories

iii) PRC is not a 1930 treaty signatory but enforce Master Nationality Rule in a big way - to the extent they demanded Canadians they suspect to be Chinese citizens to obtain China Travel Documents to proceed to China

iv) ROC is the 1930 China signatory but they disclaimed Article 4.
And I think they mean it - I am treated as an Australian in Taiwan, even though I can also be treated as a ROC Citizen outside Mainland Area.
I think we broadly agree on most things.

It is eminently sensible to enter (and, if relevant, exit) a country on your passport of citizenship of that country. It avoids potential visa/overstay issues. More importantly, why would a citizen and passport holder of a particular country not enter that country with his appropriate passport? To make some sort of statement? To try and be clever/invisible? There are no good clean reasons. The US requires entry on a US passport, this is true, but I know plenty of Americans who enter on one of their other passports. I honestly don't know why. And the US can't deny them entry if they can prove US citizenship. Bizarre, I know.

My children have triple citizenships, yet travel regularly to all three countries on only one passport. The have lived in two of the countries but, again, have only ever used a single passport. With four children, and passports expiring earlier, these fees add up!
LondonElite is online now  
Old Feb 24, 20, 4:58 am
  #67  
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Asia Miles. Not bothering to join Marco Polo.
Posts: 16,559
Originally Posted by LondonElite View Post
It is eminently sensible to enter (and, if relevant, exit) a country on your passport of citizenship of that country. It avoids potential visa/overstay issues. More importantly, why would a citizen and passport holder of a particular country not enter that country with his appropriate passport?
People are lazy
My elder brother couldn't even be arsed to properly maintain one. Not only it took his wife, but me and mother to electronically reach down under and kick his axx before he condescended to visit an Australian Post outlet during opening hours (Australian passport renewals must be accepted by an Australia Post postmaster, APO officer or consulate officer if overseas)


And also, even if someone has taken the trouble to obtain multiple passports
Sometimes its administratively cumbersome to use the second one - maybe because of non-identical names.

I have an "Uncle" and "Auntie" - friends of mother's - who I help buy Asia Miles and ticket redemptions for to/from Vancouver
They have has different names for HKSAR (just their Chinese names) and Canadian (includes their Christian names, and Auntie uses married name as surname).

Their principal Asia Miles account names are their HKSAR names
Initially I ticketed under their HKSAR names, and they travelled as HKSAR to Canada despite being Canadian citizens and passport holders (just never showed Canadian passports), and CBSA didn't give them any trouble (pre-eTA)

But after eTA started being imposed on HKSAR passports, we really decided to ticket using their Canadian names.

This isn't new for Asia Miles, I am allowed to file alias names for Uncle and Auntie.
But every time I try to ticket with their Canadian names, I have to call in.
And I get pushback from Asia Miles agents, to the extent that one of them hung up on me
I also got an agent last year who managed to ticket Auntie's Canadian given names and (HKSAR) maiden surname (an impossibility since this isn't the principal name or alias)

Originally Posted by LondonElite View Post
My children have triple citizenships, yet travel regularly to all three countries on only one passport. The have lived in two of the countries but, again, have only ever used a single passport. With four children, and passports expiring earlier, these fees add up!
If you don't mind me asking, how did your children live in the second country with only one passport?
Some sort of declaratory visa on the first (Australia and New Zealand allow citizens to obtain citizen declaratory visas on their foreign passports for Australian/New Zealand re-entry. I think Australia's is harder to obtain than New Zealand's)?
percysmith is offline  
Old Feb 24, 20, 5:01 am
  #68  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 91,212
Originally Posted by LesDorgo View Post
You need an Electronic Travel Authorization (eTA) or VISA or be a Canadian citizen to board a flight to Canada.
Many US passport users fly to Canada without a Canadian ETA or visa. And there are probably still some other exceptions to the above.
GUWonder is online now  
Old Feb 24, 20, 5:01 am
  #69  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Berlin, SW Florida, and Toronto
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Diamond, Discovery Black, and assorted others
Posts: 27,108
Originally Posted by percysmith View Post
People are lazy
My elder brother couldn't even be arsed to properly maintain one. Not only it took his wife, but me and mother to electronically reach down under and kick his axx before he condescended to visit an Australian Post outlet during opening hours (Australian passport renewals must be accepted by an Australia Post postmaster, APO officer or consulate officer if overseas)


And also, even if someone has taken the trouble to obtain multiple passports
Sometimes its administratively cumbersome to use the second one - maybe because of non-identical names.

I have an "Uncle" and "Auntie" - friends of mother's - who I help buy Asia Miles and ticket redemptions for to/from Vancouver
They have has different names for HKSAR (just their Chinese names) and Canadian (includes their Christian names, and Auntie uses married name as surname).

Their principal Asia Miles account names are their HKSAR names
Initially I ticketed under their HKSAR names, and they travelled as HKSAR to Canada despite being Canadian citizens and passport holders (just never showed Canadian passports), and CBSA didn't give them any trouble (pre-eTA)

But after eTA started being imposed on HKSAR passports, we really decided to ticket using their Canadian names.

This isn't new for Asia Miles, I am allowed to file alias names for Uncle and Auntie.
But every time I try to ticket with their Canadian names, I get pushback from Asia Miles agents
To the extent that one of them hung up on me
And last year an agent managed to ticket Auntie's Canadian given names and (HKSAR) maiden surname (an impossibility since this isn't the principal name or alias)
Noted. Not everyone takes these things as seriously or are as obsessed as FTers!

If you don't mind me asking, how did your children live in the second country with only one passport?
Some sort of declaratory visa on the first (Australia and New Zealand allow citizens to obtain citizen declaratory visas on their foreign passports for Australian/New Zealand re-entry. I think Australia's is harder to obtain than New Zealand's)?
Easily possible within the EU. Although one of their citizenships is non-EU.
LondonElite is online now  
Old Feb 24, 20, 5:22 am
  #70  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 91,212
Originally Posted by percysmith View Post
If you don't mind me asking, how did your children live in the second country with only one passport?
Some sort of declaratory visa on the first (Australia and New Zealand allow citizens to obtain citizen declaratory visas on their foreign passports for Australian/New Zealand re-entry. I think Australia's is harder to obtain than New Zealand's)?
I know some US dual-citizens who lived (and may still be getting by) with only their non-US passports and still maintained ties to the US with US visits and more. They entered the US by using their non-US passports and sometimes presenting their long-ago expired US passports along with the US birth certificate while showing their non-US passport. US CBP can process entries of US citizens at US ports of entry using proof of US citizenship and identity, and those conditions to be lawfully admitted into the US as a US citizen don't require possession and use of a currently valid US passport. And I'm talking about travels even within very recent times.

I have US-Swedish family members who have traveled into the US while their only unexpired passports were Swedish ones. They do have proof of US citizenship and identity, and that works wonders even without an unexpired US passport.
GUWonder is online now  
Old Feb 24, 20, 9:00 am
  #71  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: AC E50K; SPG Gold; IHG Ambassador; NEXUS
Posts: 74
Originally Posted by LondonElite View Post
The US requires entry on a US passport, this is true, but I know plenty of Americans who enter on one of their other passports. I honestly don't know why. And the US can't deny them entry if they can prove US citizenship. Bizarre, I know.
I had this issue explained to me once by a US CBP agent when entering the US with my Canadian passport, even though I am also a US citizen (US passport had expired). He said that the reason they insist on you entering with a US passport is that CBP would technically be breaking the law by stamping your (foreign) passport with a limited duration of stay in the US because you can't limit the stay of an American in the US. A bit of a technicality, but made sense.
MB24 is offline  
Old Feb 24, 20, 10:19 am
  #72  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: YYZ
Posts: 1,422
Lightbulb

Originally Posted by kumagoro View Post
Hi, thanks for the link.

However, again the link refers to "carrying both passports".
You most likely have not read the entire page, specifically the part about "special authorization" that I referenced:
You can apply for a special authorization if you:
  • have not been issued a Canadian passport that is valid on the day of your travel;
  • have a flight to Canada that leaves in less than 10 days;
  • have a valid passport from a visa-exempt country.
And one of the following:
  • have previously received a certificate of Canadian citizenship, or
  • held a Canadian passport in the past, or
  • were granted Canadian citizenship after having been a permanent resident of Canada.
Your information will be verified in our electronic systems to confirm that you are a Canadian citizen. This authorization will be valid for only 4 days from the date of travel you select on the form. If you donít use it within this time, you will need to apply for a new authorization.
blue2002 is offline  
Old Feb 24, 20, 1:03 pm
  #73  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 11,623
Originally Posted by bobbytables View Post
that may be the way you see it, but itís not true. Canadian law requires Canadian citizens to enter with their Canadian passport. (I believe the USA has the same requirement for USA citizens.)
I would really want to see that law as I can't find it.

U.S. law makes this very clear that you will face fine for not using U.S. Passport, but did not mention if that is a criminal offense or not.
garykung is offline  
Old Feb 24, 20, 1:51 pm
  #74  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Programs: statusless these days
Posts: 19,804
Originally Posted by garykung View Post
I would really want to see that law as I can't find it.
Buried somewhere in the Canada Gazette.
YVR Cockroach is offline  
Old Feb 24, 20, 1:59 pm
  #75  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 11,623
Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach View Post
Buried somewhere in the Canada Gazette.
This is not an answer I am really looking for...
garykung is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: