Loaded Magazine Found in Carry On Bag - Consequences?
May 12, 2018, 8:44 am
#16
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Reminder:
When replying to this thread, please bear in mind that the Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues forum is informational. Please answer the OP's question and limit your responses here to facts, past experiences and data points. Save your opinion and commentary for the Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate forum.
Thank you,
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Thank you,
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
May 25, 2018, 10:39 am
#17
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: SNA
Programs: MARRIOTT TITANIUM / HILTON GOLD / UA SILVER / AMEX PLAT
Posts: 609
Busted: Loaded Mag In My Carry-on. What to expect
So I was goung through the TSA Pre-Check screen ing and they found a loaded magazine in my carry-on.
I am a range instructor and participate in numerous firearms training events to this end I have a dedicated range bag so I do not know how it got mixed in with my carry on.
I am fully permitted to carry in my state as I worked for the district attorney's office. That being said, TSA called the cops and the TSA Supervisor.
I explained that I apologize and bear full responsiblity for my actions and presented my Global Entry and CCW credentials.
The LEO stated that he was not going to cite me but would have to write a report about it.
The TSA supervisor said as I had taken responsiblity and was very cooperative he would write in the report that this was a violation but was a "positive" encounter. Later he advised me that if I have no criminal history and no prior negative encounters with TSA that my punishment would be suspension from Global Entry for a year followed up by a warning letter with no fine imposed.
As a case report is generated, I will have to report this to my issuing agency for CCW. They may pull my permit or give me a
All in all, it sounds like I should not be worried. But would still like to hear about any possible other things I should be concerned about.
Yes, I am an Idiot. I should have checked my carry on.
I am a range instructor and participate in numerous firearms training events to this end I have a dedicated range bag so I do not know how it got mixed in with my carry on.
I am fully permitted to carry in my state as I worked for the district attorney's office. That being said, TSA called the cops and the TSA Supervisor.
I explained that I apologize and bear full responsiblity for my actions and presented my Global Entry and CCW credentials.
The LEO stated that he was not going to cite me but would have to write a report about it.
The TSA supervisor said as I had taken responsiblity and was very cooperative he would write in the report that this was a violation but was a "positive" encounter. Later he advised me that if I have no criminal history and no prior negative encounters with TSA that my punishment would be suspension from Global Entry for a year followed up by a warning letter with no fine imposed.
As a case report is generated, I will have to report this to my issuing agency for CCW. They may pull my permit or give me a
All in all, it sounds like I should not be worried. But would still like to hear about any possible other things I should be concerned about.
Yes, I am an Idiot. I should have checked my carry on.
May 25, 2018, 12:30 pm
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,110
So I was goung through the TSA Pre-Check screen ing and they found a loaded magazine in my carry-on.
I am a range instructor and participate in numerous firearms training events to this end I have a dedicated range bag so I do not know how it got mixed in with my carry on.
I am fully permitted to carry in my state as I worked for the district attorney's office. That being said, TSA called the cops and the TSA Supervisor.
I explained that I apologize and bear full responsiblity for my actions and presented my Global Entry and CCW credentials.
The LEO stated that he was not going to cite me but would have to write a report about it.
The TSA supervisor said as I had taken responsiblity and was very cooperative he would write in the report that this was a violation but was a "positive" encounter. Later he advised me that if I have no criminal history and no prior negative encounters with TSA that my punishment would be suspension from Global Entry for a year followed up by a warning letter with no fine imposed.
As a case report is generated, I will have to report this to my issuing agency for CCW. They may pull my permit or give me a
All in all, it sounds like I should not be worried. But would still like to hear about any possible other things I should be concerned about.
Yes, I am an Idiot. I should have checked my carry on.
I am a range instructor and participate in numerous firearms training events to this end I have a dedicated range bag so I do not know how it got mixed in with my carry on.
I am fully permitted to carry in my state as I worked for the district attorney's office. That being said, TSA called the cops and the TSA Supervisor.
I explained that I apologize and bear full responsiblity for my actions and presented my Global Entry and CCW credentials.
The LEO stated that he was not going to cite me but would have to write a report about it.
The TSA supervisor said as I had taken responsiblity and was very cooperative he would write in the report that this was a violation but was a "positive" encounter. Later he advised me that if I have no criminal history and no prior negative encounters with TSA that my punishment would be suspension from Global Entry for a year followed up by a warning letter with no fine imposed.
As a case report is generated, I will have to report this to my issuing agency for CCW. They may pull my permit or give me a
All in all, it sounds like I should not be worried. But would still like to hear about any possible other things I should be concerned about.
Yes, I am an Idiot. I should have checked my carry on.
May 25, 2018, 1:34 pm
#19
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Given your position, I would consult a lawyer. That is specifically because of your position and possible, but unlikely consequences. If all of this goes sideways, you do want to be prepared and not in "wait" mode.
While you did the right thing by bringing the temperature down, TSA and certainly nobody at the checkpoint is the final say on what happens. Thus, you have to be prepared for someone up the food chain to take any action possible. Those actions:
1. Criminal - This was a crime. Seems highly unlikely in that people do this, are belligerent and unapologetic, and don't get find.
2. Civil penalty - DHS may seek penalties of up to $11,000. If DHS pursues this, it would propose a fine, usually a lot less than the maximum and you could either agree to that or contest the matter and be heard before an administrative judge. A finding could be appealed to federal court.
3. Your GE will likely be revoked. CBP, which administers the program, is really tough. One-year might apply to Pre-Check and you could apply for that after a year, but don't get your hopes up on GE.
In the ordinary course, I would tell you to sit back and do nothing. If anything happens, you will be notified. Nobody will arrest you in the middle of the night. But, if I worked in law enforcement or had a similar position, e.g. something where the consequences of action could go far beyond the issue itself, I would want a lawyer to take a look at all of this.
As to whether you notify the DA, that is a matter of your employer's policy and it may or may not matter that there is a citation issued. Something you or your lawyer will have to research.
While you did the right thing by bringing the temperature down, TSA and certainly nobody at the checkpoint is the final say on what happens. Thus, you have to be prepared for someone up the food chain to take any action possible. Those actions:
1. Criminal - This was a crime. Seems highly unlikely in that people do this, are belligerent and unapologetic, and don't get find.
2. Civil penalty - DHS may seek penalties of up to $11,000. If DHS pursues this, it would propose a fine, usually a lot less than the maximum and you could either agree to that or contest the matter and be heard before an administrative judge. A finding could be appealed to federal court.
3. Your GE will likely be revoked. CBP, which administers the program, is really tough. One-year might apply to Pre-Check and you could apply for that after a year, but don't get your hopes up on GE.
In the ordinary course, I would tell you to sit back and do nothing. If anything happens, you will be notified. Nobody will arrest you in the middle of the night. But, if I worked in law enforcement or had a similar position, e.g. something where the consequences of action could go far beyond the issue itself, I would want a lawyer to take a look at all of this.
As to whether you notify the DA, that is a matter of your employer's policy and it may or may not matter that there is a citation issued. Something you or your lawyer will have to research.
May 25, 2018, 1:55 pm
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,513
Given your position, I would consult a lawyer. That is specifically because of your position and possible, but unlikely consequences. If all of this goes sideways, you do want to be prepared and not in "wait" mode.
While you did the right thing by bringing the temperature down, TSA and certainly nobody at the checkpoint is the final say on what happens. Thus, you have to be prepared for someone up the food chain to take any action possible. Those actions:
1. Criminal - This was a crime. Seems highly unlikely in that people do this, are belligerent and unapologetic, and don't get find.
2. Civil penalty - DHS may seek penalties of up to $11,000. If DHS pursues this, it would propose a fine, usually a lot less than the maximum and you could either agree to that or contest the matter and be heard before an administrative judge. A finding could be appealed to federal court.
3. Your GE will likely be revoked. CBP, which administers the program, is really tough. One-year might apply to Pre-Check and you could apply for that after a year, but don't get your hopes up on GE.
In the ordinary course, I would tell you to sit back and do nothing. If anything happens, you will be notified. Nobody will arrest you in the middle of the night. But, if I worked in law enforcement or had a similar position, e.g. something where the consequences of action could go far beyond the issue itself, I would want a lawyer to take a look at all of this.
As to whether you notify the DA, that is a matter of your employer's policy and it may or may not matter that there is a citation issued. Something you or your lawyer will have to research.
While you did the right thing by bringing the temperature down, TSA and certainly nobody at the checkpoint is the final say on what happens. Thus, you have to be prepared for someone up the food chain to take any action possible. Those actions:
1. Criminal - This was a crime. Seems highly unlikely in that people do this, are belligerent and unapologetic, and don't get find.
2. Civil penalty - DHS may seek penalties of up to $11,000. If DHS pursues this, it would propose a fine, usually a lot less than the maximum and you could either agree to that or contest the matter and be heard before an administrative judge. A finding could be appealed to federal court.
3. Your GE will likely be revoked. CBP, which administers the program, is really tough. One-year might apply to Pre-Check and you could apply for that after a year, but don't get your hopes up on GE.
In the ordinary course, I would tell you to sit back and do nothing. If anything happens, you will be notified. Nobody will arrest you in the middle of the night. But, if I worked in law enforcement or had a similar position, e.g. something where the consequences of action could go far beyond the issue itself, I would want a lawyer to take a look at all of this.
As to whether you notify the DA, that is a matter of your employer's policy and it may or may not matter that there is a citation issued. Something you or your lawyer will have to research.
May 25, 2018, 4:45 pm
#21
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Sunny So Cal
Programs: SPG, HH, IHG, BA, DL
Posts: 192
I take it you had to throw away your mag and ammo at the TSA station ??
Since I was once an FFL, and consistently carry along my CCW handgun in my checked luggage, I always make it a habit of double checking my carry on's bag, zippered pockets, side pockets, etc before going thru the checkpoint.
I have had this fear that something like this might happen because I was so used to carrying gun frames, slides, parts, mags and ammo in my range bags as part of my old business....
Since I was once an FFL, and consistently carry along my CCW handgun in my checked luggage, I always make it a habit of double checking my carry on's bag, zippered pockets, side pockets, etc before going thru the checkpoint.
I have had this fear that something like this might happen because I was so used to carrying gun frames, slides, parts, mags and ammo in my range bags as part of my old business....
May 26, 2018, 3:46 pm
#22
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 208
I would think if it was considered a felony the officer would be obligated under law to make the arrest therefor since you were not arrest on scene you are probably off the hook for any felony charge.
Given your description of the events if the responding police officer took the magazine and not the TSA it's a strong possibility that no further action will be taken.
Since you identified yourself as someone affiliated with law enforcement (worked for the DA) the TSA and the officer may have just decided to use some discretion, give you some professional courtesy and let the entire incident evaporate into nothing...
Do nothing/Say nothing and it may very well go away.... The fact that you continue to fly without any issue infers a strong probability you're off the hook...
Given your description of the events if the responding police officer took the magazine and not the TSA it's a strong possibility that no further action will be taken.
Since you identified yourself as someone affiliated with law enforcement (worked for the DA) the TSA and the officer may have just decided to use some discretion, give you some professional courtesy and let the entire incident evaporate into nothing...
Do nothing/Say nothing and it may very well go away.... The fact that you continue to fly without any issue infers a strong probability you're off the hook...
May 28, 2018, 9:14 am
#23
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
The Officer, while a TSA Officer, is not a law enforcement officer and cannot make an arrest for anything. The most he could do is "briefly" detain a felon and hold him for a law enforcement officer to make an arrest (or not). Law enforcement officers are not required to make arrests for felonies, at least not for federal violations and most state jurisdictions.
I think that it is way overstating the authority of a front-line TSA Officer to suggest that a criminal or civil proceeding may follow. While it certainly helps that the Officer did not take immediate action, he did "write it up" and that report will be reviewed way above his pay grade.
OP should not do anything himself. But, a sensible person who cannot affirmatively say that he will not face felony prosecution and especially one who may face a job loss, ought to consult a lawyer. A real one whom he may consult on a privileged basis.
I think that it is way overstating the authority of a front-line TSA Officer to suggest that a criminal or civil proceeding may follow. While it certainly helps that the Officer did not take immediate action, he did "write it up" and that report will be reviewed way above his pay grade.
OP should not do anything himself. But, a sensible person who cannot affirmatively say that he will not face felony prosecution and especially one who may face a job loss, ought to consult a lawyer. A real one whom he may consult on a privileged basis.
Feb 20, 2021, 1:15 pm
#24
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 2
Did you ever heard anything about this issue ?
I hope you and yours are well on this crazy times. Did you hear anything back on your situation. I traveled a couple of days ago and used a carry on bag hadn’t used in a while. I passed through security and a barrel was found. Forgot I had a spare Glock barrel. They did the same thing picture of part, Id wrote in a piece of paper my name address etc. cops came,they were actually nice no issue I told them it was a mistake. They return the part to me and ask to check luggage. Nervous as they took Pictures of ID etc. didn’t say anything else. Was wondering what’s next ? Words of wisdom. ?? Please
Feb 22, 2021, 3:54 pm
#25
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: WAS
Programs: enjoyed being warm spit for a few years on CO/UA but now nothing :(
Posts: 2,507
If you were allowed to continue on your way with the "offending" item then nothing is next.
However, the incident and your identifying information have been entered into a database. This might result in being singled out for additional screening the next time passing through a checkpoint.
Should you be involved in a future incident with the same law enforcement agency (or possibly others depending upon data sharing agreements between them) then they will be aware of the previous incident which might or might not have some bearing on the investigative process for the new incident.
However, the incident and your identifying information have been entered into a database. This might result in being singled out for additional screening the next time passing through a checkpoint.
Should you be involved in a future incident with the same law enforcement agency (or possibly others depending upon data sharing agreements between them) then they will be aware of the previous incident which might or might not have some bearing on the investigative process for the new incident.
Feb 22, 2021, 4:08 pm
#26
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 2
Thank you for your response.
If you were allowed to continue on your way with the "offending" item then nothing is next.
However, the incident and your identifying information have been entered into a database. This might result in being singled out for additional screening the next time passing through a checkpoint.
Should you be involved in a future incident with the same law enforcement agency (or possibly others depending upon data sharing agreements between them) then they will be aware of the previous incident which might or might not have some bearing on the investigative process for the new incident.
However, the incident and your identifying information have been entered into a database. This might result in being singled out for additional screening the next time passing through a checkpoint.
Should you be involved in a future incident with the same law enforcement agency (or possibly others depending upon data sharing agreements between them) then they will be aware of the previous incident which might or might not have some bearing on the investigative process for the new incident.