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Originally Posted by cbn42
(Post 20565985)
Easiest solution is to paper clip or rubber band the pages together so that only the ID page opens. I doubt TSA will undo it.
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Originally Posted by DLFan2
(Post 20557871)
Afraid not. Your link only deals with RESIDENTS.
Florida and Hawaii both allow non-resident military members to obtain auto license plates without re-titling their vehicles, but FL does not issue DLs to non-residents. In fact, FL has just recently passed a law requiring foreign drivers to have an International Driver's License (enforcement with regard to Canadians has been put on hold). And a law passed in 2010 made EVERYONE renewing a FL DL provide all sorts of documents to prove legal residence in the U.S. and legal residence in FL. As a Canadian, if you own or rent property in FL, you are able to get an FL DL. I went to the SSA, obtained the required letter, and then obtained my FL DL. It is marked in small red letters "temporary" and is valid only for 1 year and must be renewed in person. |
Originally Posted by SeriouslyLost
(Post 20563706)
As in "without having to take any driving tests but still supply the paperwork" swap. Not "just swap it for you". Some states will swap. Other won't. 7 seconds on google came up with this.
The US is balkanized IMO: it is broken into unnecessarily small parts that frequently operate different rules for the same things, mostly with no benefit and only increased cost and inefficiency. 200+ years ago it might have made sense to arrange the country the way it is, but these days? It's simply part of the problem, along with the political system the US has.[1] 1. Implicate in the last part is the assumption that "the people" are the ones that should be served by government, not the other way around or where govt functions as an arm of commerce. If you don't like that assumption then obviously YMMV. The opposite is true of the U.S. It is made up of a bunch of smaller entities which voluntarily surrendered partial sovereignty and joined together for the good of the whole, without giving up identity or control of "local" issues. The United States is a vast country with diverse population groups, climactic zones, industries, needs, and lifestyles. A rancher in rural New Mexico would feel little affinity with a Bostonian, yet both share their loyalty to the nation despite their differences. Many traffic laws in San Francisco likely make no sense whatsoever to a person living in Orlando. This is NOT balkanization by any stretch of the imagination. If you cannot understand this, then your understanding of the United States is very limited. BTW: Do you consider Canada "balkanized"? Canada after all has two official languages with one group of Canadians primarily speaking one of them and another group speaking the other, and many having very limited ability in the second language. And one province which periodically threatens to leave the confederation. On the one hand, the federal government controls a lot of Canadian life, and on the other, the provinces regulate things to suit the particular needs of their populations. Whether or not you personally believe that a federal system works well or not, "balkanization" is not the appropriate term to use. |
OK. So the OP (whom we now know to be Australian) wants to know if he can get a U.S. form of identification.
The simple answer is NO. Not without some sort of official status in the U.S. other than as a tourist. One poster says he was able to get a temporary FL DL because he owns property. I don't doubt that he was able to get the DL, but if he is here as a tourist rather than on some sort of work visa or other non-tourist status, I am not sure that the DL should have been issued. There are dummies in every official capacity. A Canadian has no need for a U.S. ID or DL. Canadian DLs are valid for driving and for the TSA. Is there any other reason to want one if you are Canadian? I am not agreeing with a policy which does not accept a DL from AUS as an acceptable form of ID by the TSA (assuming the identification requirements for the AUS DL are as stringent as REAL ID), but without some sort of non-tourist legal status here, you can drive with your AUS DL but cannot use it for the TSA. As far as thumbing through the passport, clipping pages together should be sufficient. If the TSO insists on doing it anyway, politely ask him not to. If he persists, ask for a supervisor. TSOs are not part of CBP and they have no power to detain or arrest anyone. And they have no business checking out your past travel. On the other hand, we all know how bright they are (thinking Hawaii is not a state, New Mexico is a foreign country, etc), so I doubt that most of them would even be able to understand the stamps in the passport (heck, I have trouble reading a lot of them because the ink impressions are so faint in many cases). Here is a list of acceptable ID (from the TSA website). If you want to be bold, you can tell them you don't have ID with you. They claim they can deal with this situation just fine! ---------------------------------------------------------- Adult passengers (18 and over) are required to show a U.S. federal or state-issued photo ID in order to be allowed to go through the checkpoint and onto their flight. We understand passengers occasionally arrive at the airport without an ID, due to lost items or inadvertently leaving them at home. Not having an ID, does not necessarily mean a passenger won't be allowed to fly. If passengers are willing to provide additional information, we have other means of substantiating someone's identity, like using publicly available databases. Passengers who are cleared through this process may be subject to additional screening. Passengers whose identity cannot be verified by TSA may not be allowed to enter the screening checkpoint or onto an airplane. Acceptable IDs include: U.S. passport U.S. passport card DHS "Trusted Traveler" cards (Global Entry, NEXUS, SENTRI, FAST) U.S. Military ID (active duty or retired military and their dependents, and DOD civilians) Permanent Resident Card Border Crossing Card DHS-designated enhanced driver's license Drivers Licenses or other state photo identity cards issued by Department of Motor Vehicles (or equivalent) Native American Tribal Photo ID An airline or airport-issued ID (if issued under a TSA-approved security plan) A foreign government-issued passport Canadian provincial driver's license or Indian and Northern Affairs Canada (INAC) card Transportation Worker Identification Credential (TWIC) Non-US/Canadian citizens are not required to carry their passports if they have documents issued by the U.S. government such as Permanent Resident Cards. Those who do not should be carrying their passports while visiting the U.S. This standardization of the list of accepted documents better aligns TSA with other DHS components, including Customs and Border Protection, and REAL ID benchmarks. |
Originally Posted by cbn42
(Post 20565985)
Funny how Americans with driver's licenses will use their passports at TSA in order to conceal their address, and foreigners are looking for ways to obtain licenses so they don't have to use passports.
Even though he has only the DL and BP, in many cases it tells the TSO too much. If a man and his wife come through the checkpoint in ATL and their BPs are for the nonstop to Tokyo, the TSO knows even if they are on a MR the Smith residence at 123 Main Street is most likely unoccupied for a minimum of 30 hours. Should there ever be a dishonest TSO :rolleyes: with friends in the home burglary field it could be bad news for the Smith household. A foreign national might not want the TSO to read his passport and see his last work trips took him to Pakistan or Yemen, or Blacklight Bob might think he has the Big Catch™, even though CBP has already cleared this person. |
Originally Posted by Flaflyer
(Post 20569230)
If a man and his wife come through the checkpoint in ATL and their BPs are for the nonstop to Tokyo, the TSO knows even if they are on a MR the Smith residence at 123 Main Street is most likely unoccupied for a minimum of 30 hours. Should there ever be a dishonest TSO :rolleyes: with friends in the home burglary field it could be bad news for the Smith household.
It really makes no sense to me. Even if a man and his wife are flying to Tokyo, they might have kids or other relatives who are staying at home. Besides, if someone is really going away and leaving their house empty for an extended period of time, everyone from the taxi driver to the postman would be aware of this. The TSA would be the last people I'd worry about. |
Originally Posted by cbn42
(Post 20570347)
Is there any actual evidence that this has happened in even one case, or is it just speculation?
If a TSO takes stuff at the airport, there is the risk of getting caught on the way out with the loot. TSOs don’t normally bring their laptops to work, why would one be carrying two leaving work on the shuttle bus to the employee parking lot? :eek: Taking a street address home in your head is a lot safer. Passing it to friends as a good house to target is a lot safer. Yes there may be a house sitter, but there may not be and if so the robbery may not be discovered and reported for days. Unless the burglars are caught and tell on their TSA insider, there is no connection and it never makes the newspaper that a TSO was involved. Just another “Person on vacation has house broken into while gone.” Another risk that is avoidable by the simple method of using an ID that does not contain a home address. TSOs consider every passenger who presents himself at the checkpoint to be a "murdering hijacking terrorist until proven otherwise." I see nothing wrong with having the same attitude toward the TSA clerks. I assume they are ALL thiefs until proven otherwise. |
Originally Posted by cbn42
(Post 20570347)
Is there any actual evidence that this has happened in even one case, or is it just speculation?
It really makes no sense to me. Even if a man and his wife are flying to Tokyo, they might have kids or other relatives who are staying at home. Besides, if someone is really going away and leaving their house empty for an extended period of time, everyone from the taxi driver to the postman would be aware of this. The TSA would be the last people I'd worry about. |
The TSA has a history of having crooks in its rank and file, so why let those facts get in the way? To defend the TSA checking passenger ID for who knows what purpose? It seems so.
As a practical matter, the Passport Card is pretty addresses, at least in good part, the different reasonable concerns in the following quoted post:
Originally Posted by Flaflyer
(Post 20569230)
Different security concerns.
Even though he has only the DL and BP, in many cases it tells the TSO too much. If a man and his wife come through the checkpoint in ATL and their BPs are for the nonstop to Tokyo, the TSO knows even if they are on a MR the Smith residence at 123 Main Street is most likely unoccupied for a minimum of 30 hours. Should there ever be a dishonest TSO :rolleyes: with friends in the home burglary field it could be bad news for the Smith household. A foreign national might not want the TSO to read his passport and see his last work trips took him to Pakistan or Yemen, or Blacklight Bob might think he has the Big Catch™, even though CBP has already cleared this person. Given the history of the TSA stealing from passengers' checked luggage and otherwise (including stealing from the government/taxpayer), it wouldn't be a surprise if the TSA has also been involved or gets involved in swiping passenger info for various criminal purposes at the airport or beyond. The TSA certainly aren't all going to avoid home burglary out of moral reasons. |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 20578329)
The TSA has a history of having crooks in its rank and file, so why let those facts get in the way? To defend the TSA checking passenger ID for who knows what purpose? It seems so.
As a practical matter, the Passport Card is pretty addresses, at least in good part, the different reasonable concerns in the following quoted post: As in the quoted post above, the facts are that postal employees and neighborhood-"patrolling" police have most certainly been involved in enabling thefts at houses they knew were highly likely to be empty. Given the history of the TSA stealing from passengers' checked luggage and otherwise (including stealing from the government/taxpayer), it wouldn't be a surprise if the TSA has also been involved or gets involved in swiping passenger info for various criminal purposes at the airport or beyond. The TSA certainly aren't all going to avoid home burglary out of moral reasons. |
I’d use one or more rubber bands to hold the superfluous pages of my passport closed. If you want to take it a step further...
As an experiment, I've found I've repeatedly been able to get through the TSA ID check using a Reader's ID card from the Library of Congress. Other folks on FlyerTalk have reported good results with them, too. The cards issued about 10 years ago used to say "Not valid for ID purposes" on the back, but that language disappeared a few years later. My card has expired, so I don’t know what the current card says. If you are ever in Washington D.C. and you want to give it a try, you can find details here: http://www.loc.gov/rr/readerregistration.html I’ve also read of a surprising number of folks being able to pass the TSA checkpoint using an ID from Costco (a privately run membership warehouse store). You might try any ID in English with your photo, name, and an expiration date and see what that - combined with a confident attitude - can do for you. Keep you passport in another pocket, though, just in case. If there is a particular spot you often visit in the US, you might see if that state or city issues any ID card. For example, my small city has a sharp looking optional photo ID card that makes it more convenient to use some city owned sports and recreation facilities. Some states issue firearms permits to aliens (for example - http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/faalienreq.html ) - if you visit a state where that is cheap and easy, and where the permit is a wallet sized ID card, that’s an option. And what says “I’ve been to America” better that a concealed pistol permit? {grin}. Perhaps the “University of (State Name)” will let you enroll to audit a course as a non-degree seeking student for little money and issue you a photo ID, which isn’t on the TSA’s list, but which they might accept. If you are willing to invest enough time, energy, and money, you can find a solution...but if I were you, I’d just use a few rubber bands on the passport. As always, your mileage may vary. |
Originally Posted by cbn42
(Post 20565985)
Easiest solution is to paper clip or rubber band the pages together so that only the ID page opens. I doubt TSA will undo it.
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The OP can most definitely get a drivers license in Hawai'i with the following conditions:
1. they will need an address of some kind, although no proof of residency is required (proof of residency *is* required for state ID cards) 2. they will need to take a written test - and you better study for it, because it's hard 3. they will need to take a road-test unless surrendering a license from another US state or Canada 4. they will need to show proof of admissibility in the US - ie, their passport must included the necessary visa (Canadians are excepted). Quite a few folks from Japan who have vacation property in HI will have a HI drivers license to use while visiting - it's just easier than a Japan license+IDP for a frequent visitor who is integrated into the local scene 5. If the HI DMV knows you have a license from another jurisdiction, they will ask you to surrender it - I watched a man from Vancouver try to wrap his head around the concept of surrendering his BC license for a HI license, then surrender his HI license for a BC license after snowbird season, then repeat the same process the following year, before he finally figured out it wasn't worth the hassle. So, it can be done...not easy, and definitely impossible unless the OP actually flies to HI to do it. |
Originally Posted by bocastephen
(Post 20598619)
The OP can most definitely get a drivers license in Hawai'i with the following conditions:
1. they will need an address of some kind, although no proof of residency is required (proof of residency *is* required for state ID cards) 2. they will need to take a written test - and you better study for it, because it's hard 3. they will need to take a road-test unless surrendering a license from another US state or Canada 4. they will need to show proof of admissibility in the US - ie, their passport must included the necessary visa (Canadians are excepted). Quite a few folks from Japan who have vacation property in HI will have a HI drivers license to use while visiting - it's just easier than a Japan license+IDP for a frequent visitor who is integrated into the local scene 5. If the HI DMV knows you have a license from another jurisdiction, they will ask you to surrender it - I watched a man from Vancouver try to wrap his head around the concept of surrendering his BC license for a HI license, then surrender his HI license for a BC license after snowbird season, then repeat the same process the following year, before he finally figured out it wasn't worth the hassle. So, it can be done...not easy, and definitely impossible unless the OP actually flies to HI to do it. From the government website: http://www1.honolulu.gov/csd/vehicle/dlinformation.htm Beginning Monday, March 5, 2012, proof of "legal presence" will be required for driver licenses and learner's permits throughout Hawaii in accordance to Act 38 of the 2010 state Legislative session. Click here for a full list of the Legal Presence Act requirements and frequently asked questions. Proof documents to verify legal presence include U.S. birth certificates and U.S. passports. Foreign born applicants may provide other documents, such as a Certificate of Citizenship or Naturalization, Resident Alien Card, or a valid foreign passport with a Visa and I-94 Applicants applying for an original Hawaii driver’s license. Anyone who has never held or is re-applying for a Hawaii driver’s license must provide proof of legal presence in the U.S. Applicants renewing their Hawaii driver’s license. Anyone who renews their Hawaii driver’s license must provide proof of legal presence in the U.S. Applicants who are U.S. citizens and aliens admitted for permanent residence status in the U.S. will need to provide proof of legal presence documents every second renewal. Drivers reinstating their driving privilege because of a license revocation or cancellation. Customers whose license or permit to drive has been revoked or cancelled must provide proof of legal presence in the U.S. Drivers who have allowed their license to expire. Anyone who lets his driver’s license expire, even by just one day, must provide proof of legal presence in the U.S. Permit holders when they pass their road test and obtain a Hawaii driver’s license. All permit holders must provide proof of legal presence in the U.S. Drivers converting their Hawaii provisional driver’s license to a full driver’s license. All license holders who convert from a provisional to a full license must provide proof of legal presence in the U.S. |
Originally Posted by Finkface
(Post 20603837)
Not anymore, I'm afraid. I own property there and it is no longer possible. Even someone who currently holds a HI license before this new law came onto effect will no longer be able to renew it without proof of "legal presence" in the US. Admissibility is no longer enough. You must prove you have a "legal presence" in the US. You must have a birth certificate, green card or immigration document proving your legal status in the US. This applies to all states but I went to the Hawaii DMV personally....
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