Police Officer as a Witness for TSA Patdown?
Dec 29, 2011, 1:47 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6
Police Officer as a Witness for TSA Patdown?
Hi there,
I have read online that I have the right to have my TSA pat-down witnessed by a traveling companion or a police officer. I typically travel alone and am very offended by the TSA's practices so I opt out of the body scanners and request a police witness. The first time I tried this they just brought the TSA supervisor and said a police officer wasn't easily reachable and claimed that the TSA supervisor was "above a police officer" - I know this not to be true but accepted the supervisor as a witness anyway. Yesterday I tried this again at a different airport and the supervisor outright refused. I wrote a complaint to the TSA which I've copied below, along with the response from a representative at the airport.
Complaint:
---
I opted out of the AIT scanners around noon today at Denver
International Airport and requested that a police officer be
present as a witness as allowed by TSA policy. The woman near the
scanner referred me to the supervisor, xxxx xxxx, who refused
to allow a police officer to be present for my screening. He said that
it was not TSA policy to allow it and that they only have a police
officer present when a passenger is being "aggressive".
---
Response:
---
Mr. <LAST NAME>,
I apologize for this confusion. You may have a witness accompany you
into a private screening area if you are having a pat down and you are
traveling with someone who will be your witness. This is noted in the
link below. You may not request a local on-duty police officer as a
witness unless, perhaps, you have made some type of prior arrangements
with the police department. Your witness must be someone who is willing
to be your witness. TSA cannot provide a witness and they certainly
cannot compel a police officer to be one, nor can you. If you have a
police officer with you, who is willing to be a witness, TSA will not
have any objection to that. Any willing person may be your witness, at
your choice.
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/pat_downs.shtm
xxx xxxx
Customer Support Manager
Department of Homeland Security
Transportation Security Administration
Denver International Airport
303-xxx-xxxx
[email protected]
---
Can anyone help clarify what my rights are here and if I should in fact be able to have a police officer present? What's the point of allowing one to be present if they will refuse to call one over, and what is an on-duty police officer's duty if not to respond to requests to protect and serve? Any recommendations for what to write back in my response to this person? Thanks in advance!
I have read online that I have the right to have my TSA pat-down witnessed by a traveling companion or a police officer. I typically travel alone and am very offended by the TSA's practices so I opt out of the body scanners and request a police witness. The first time I tried this they just brought the TSA supervisor and said a police officer wasn't easily reachable and claimed that the TSA supervisor was "above a police officer" - I know this not to be true but accepted the supervisor as a witness anyway. Yesterday I tried this again at a different airport and the supervisor outright refused. I wrote a complaint to the TSA which I've copied below, along with the response from a representative at the airport.
Complaint:
---
I opted out of the AIT scanners around noon today at Denver
International Airport and requested that a police officer be
present as a witness as allowed by TSA policy. The woman near the
scanner referred me to the supervisor, xxxx xxxx, who refused
to allow a police officer to be present for my screening. He said that
it was not TSA policy to allow it and that they only have a police
officer present when a passenger is being "aggressive".
---
Response:
---
Mr. <LAST NAME>,
I apologize for this confusion. You may have a witness accompany you
into a private screening area if you are having a pat down and you are
traveling with someone who will be your witness. This is noted in the
link below. You may not request a local on-duty police officer as a
witness unless, perhaps, you have made some type of prior arrangements
with the police department. Your witness must be someone who is willing
to be your witness. TSA cannot provide a witness and they certainly
cannot compel a police officer to be one, nor can you. If you have a
police officer with you, who is willing to be a witness, TSA will not
have any objection to that. Any willing person may be your witness, at
your choice.
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/pat_downs.shtm
xxx xxxx
Customer Support Manager
Department of Homeland Security
Transportation Security Administration
Denver International Airport
303-xxx-xxxx
[email protected]
---
Can anyone help clarify what my rights are here and if I should in fact be able to have a police officer present? What's the point of allowing one to be present if they will refuse to call one over, and what is an on-duty police officer's duty if not to respond to requests to protect and serve? Any recommendations for what to write back in my response to this person? Thanks in advance!
Last edited by aztimm; Dec 29, 2011 at 1:56 pm Reason: redacted name
Dec 29, 2011, 1:58 pm
#2
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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Posts: 561
You can and by all means should demand a police officer to be present whenever TSA people are taking you to the private room. It is within TSA rules as well.
Though, last time I did that the police officer gave a "good job" to the TSA and refused to see anything wrong in what they did.
Though, last time I did that the police officer gave a "good job" to the TSA and refused to see anything wrong in what they did.
Dec 29, 2011, 2:04 pm
#3
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
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Not surprising that what the supervisor told you contradicts what the email told you - ie, the TSA supervisor should not have been a witness.
Besides that, the last person you want as a witness is a TSA employee.
Besides that, the last person you want as a witness is a TSA employee.
Dec 29, 2011, 2:52 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6
Thanks all. I have always opted to do the screening in public, since I feel like there is less room for them to do anything really inappropriate, which is partly why I let it slide the first time by accepting the TSA supervisor as my witness. However, I'm still unclear on whether/how I can get a police officer there to witness; I know that the police officer is not likely to dispute the search if it's performed according to their standard policy but at least they may be able to help if there is excessive molestation or mishandling of those explosive testing swabs... And I know that some police officers are corrupt but I'm hoping the odds are much lower that they would collaborate in an abuse compared to a TSA screener and supervisor collaborating. Does anyone have info on how they have been able to successfully get a police officer present as a witness? I couldn't find the right documents on the TSA site but is there by chance anything there that I could bring to definitively show that it's within my right to get a police officer summoned to witness?
Dec 29, 2011, 3:25 pm
#6
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,974
Agree wholeheartedly that under no circumstances should a TSA worker be your witness - that only means there are two words against your one should anything occur. It is also my opinion that most police working the airport (APD or detachment) would side with the TSA anyway.
Dec 29, 2011, 3:29 pm
#7
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It wouldn't matter if there was anything definitive on the TSA site. At the checkpoint, you would be told that the website is out-of-date or that your printout is a possible forgery or that a particular airport/checkpoint/screener does things differently/right.
Dec 29, 2011, 3:51 pm
#8
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
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Pants on fire.
Dec 29, 2011, 4:14 pm
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6
Haha yeah. To be totally fair (don't ask me why I feel compelled, haha) it's not an exact quote, I am paraphrasing but I waited probably 15 minutes and then they brought the supervisor and said / suggested that a police officer wasn't going to be readily available. If it's really so hard for them to locate a police officer I should shudder to think what kind of danger we're in in the unfortunate event that they should need one to help respond to a security situation promptly!
Dec 29, 2011, 6:00 pm
#10
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards. Tha... that's about it.
Posts: 4,332
Haha yeah. To be totally fair (don't ask me why I feel compelled, haha) it's not an exact quote, I am paraphrasing but I waited probably 15 minutes and then they brought the supervisor and said / suggested that a police officer wasn't going to be readily available. If it's really so hard for them to locate a police officer I should shudder to think what kind of danger we're in in the unfortunate event that they should need one to help respond to a security situation promptly!
"So basically, what you're saying is, that if I were to assault you and your screeners right now or commit some other horrible crime, the police would be nowhere around to stop me or apprehend me, right?"
Dec 29, 2011, 7:50 pm
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6
My response to that particular spurt of bilge would have been uncontrollable sarcasm: "So basically, what you're saying is, that if I were to assault you and your screeners right now or commit some other horrible crime, the police would be nowhere around to stop me or apprehend me, right?"
"So basically, what you're saying is, that if I were to assault you and your screeners right now or commit some other horrible crime, the police would be nowhere around to stop me or apprehend me, right?"
Dec 29, 2011, 10:45 pm
#12
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NJ
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Posts: 1,363
I am sure that my reply is not going to be popular to many, and know that I am not here to debate the policies of the TSA.
The role of both the TSA and Police are distinctly different. The TSA are screeners, and have no law ednforcement capabilities. The Police have the authority to enforce the laws, and would only get involved with the screening process when and if the TSA reasonably believe a passenger, after being screened, poses a threat, or has broken a law, discovered through the screening process.
The TSA is quite clear that you have the right to a wittness for a private screening, however that person must be willing to serve in that capacity. Given the seperation of duties, it would make sense that each airport's Police Departments policy would prohibit its officers from serving in such a capacity.
I will also note, while many airports have a Police Officer stationed at or near a security checkpoint, it has been my observation that this is not always the case. Particularly in airports (such as EWR) which have multiple security checkpoints.
The role of both the TSA and Police are distinctly different. The TSA are screeners, and have no law ednforcement capabilities. The Police have the authority to enforce the laws, and would only get involved with the screening process when and if the TSA reasonably believe a passenger, after being screened, poses a threat, or has broken a law, discovered through the screening process.
The TSA is quite clear that you have the right to a wittness for a private screening, however that person must be willing to serve in that capacity. Given the seperation of duties, it would make sense that each airport's Police Departments policy would prohibit its officers from serving in such a capacity.
I will also note, while many airports have a Police Officer stationed at or near a security checkpoint, it has been my observation that this is not always the case. Particularly in airports (such as EWR) which have multiple security checkpoints.
Dec 29, 2011, 11:57 pm
#13
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,580
Has anyone ever tried to make "prior arrangements
with the police department as the letter suggested? It would be interesting to see what the police department would say if you sent them a letter informing them that you have had problems with screeners in the past and would like an officer present.
Alternatively, you could simply become "aggressive" until they call an officer over.
Personally I always refuse the private room, so I figure there are enough curious witnesses watching.
with the police department as the letter suggested? It would be interesting to see what the police department would say if you sent them a letter informing them that you have had problems with screeners in the past and would like an officer present.
Alternatively, you could simply become "aggressive" until they call an officer over.
Personally I always refuse the private room, so I figure there are enough curious witnesses watching.
Dec 30, 2011, 6:00 am
#14
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
I have long advocated that we should be willing to be witnesses for fellow travelers. The problems lie in its implementation.
We have to have a known system where a "Protection Witnesses" can be identified and requested. We have never been able to come up with a viable system that is almost universally available and viable.
About the best that we can do is communicate with those around us in line that if they need a witness that we would be willing, just signal or holler if needed. I would like to see a bag tag or other prominent signal that there are those of us that would be willing to do this. It would then need to be publicized that there are those of us that will do this and how to find us.
If I had a "Protection Witness Program" bag tag and was not yet to security, someone should feel free to approach me and ask that I accompany them through the process.
We have to be willing to leave our comfort zone for a while to help other travelers. I would be willing to do this. The problem is that those that would like to have someone like me to help, do not know about me or how to find people like me.
It might be feasible to have a Protection Witness thread here. The format would be on the order of:
N: PW for BNA 8:30 am 1/12 (Need protection witness at Nashville 8:30 approximately January 12)
A: PW BNA 8:30 am 1/12 (Available as protection witness at Nashville ~8:30 January 12)
We would need to post our needs and availability and PM contact info. Coverage would be spotty at best, but it may be better than nothing.
An airline paid passenger advocate suggested in another thread could be asked to perform a similar function.
We have to have a known system where a "Protection Witnesses" can be identified and requested. We have never been able to come up with a viable system that is almost universally available and viable.
About the best that we can do is communicate with those around us in line that if they need a witness that we would be willing, just signal or holler if needed. I would like to see a bag tag or other prominent signal that there are those of us that would be willing to do this. It would then need to be publicized that there are those of us that will do this and how to find us.
If I had a "Protection Witness Program" bag tag and was not yet to security, someone should feel free to approach me and ask that I accompany them through the process.
We have to be willing to leave our comfort zone for a while to help other travelers. I would be willing to do this. The problem is that those that would like to have someone like me to help, do not know about me or how to find people like me.
It might be feasible to have a Protection Witness thread here. The format would be on the order of:
N: PW for BNA 8:30 am 1/12 (Need protection witness at Nashville 8:30 approximately January 12)
A: PW BNA 8:30 am 1/12 (Available as protection witness at Nashville ~8:30 January 12)
We would need to post our needs and availability and PM contact info. Coverage would be spotty at best, but it may be better than nothing.
An airline paid passenger advocate suggested in another thread could be asked to perform a similar function.
Dec 30, 2011, 6:16 am
#15
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NJ
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An airline is not going to pay an employee to just be on "standby" until someone requests their services as a witness. I could, however, see this as an add-on service, similar to UM services that the airlines currently have. Id say for a fee of around 25 per segment where you'd need to clear security.
For now, consider a service such as http://www.flyingcompanions.com, or even contact your local branch of http://www.travelersaid.org to see if they can be of assistance.
For now, consider a service such as http://www.flyingcompanions.com, or even contact your local branch of http://www.travelersaid.org to see if they can be of assistance.