Concealed handguns on Amtrak
 

I recently acquired a concealed handgun license for my home state of Oregon, and also have a non-resident permit for Washington. I travel to Washington by train sometimes instead of driving, and was thinking about this issue recently. Does anyone have experience with this? What's the official story about carrying concealed on Amtrak?

I've read in several places that it is a felony to carry on board an Amtrak train, and in several others that Amtrak personnel don't like it but the worst that would happen is that you'd be asked to leave the train.

So, with the assumption that Amtrak is a private company, and therefore not considered federal property (and thus off limits for concealed carry), what is the consequence of concealed carry on their trains?

As a private company I would respect their wishes and not carry concealed on their trains, but they don't appear to have a public policy about this (as opposed to firearms in checked luggage). In Oregon a private business that disallows concealed carry must post a sign near its entrance that makes this clear.

Any insights?

I also own a few handguns, but you're asking travelers to give you advice on state gun laws. You'd be well ahead of the game to contact the State Police in the states involved, and also contact Amtrack on their policies.

I wouldn't attempt to give you my opinion, since it may be wrong for your situation.

I have no first-hand knowledge to bring to this topic.

However, Amtrak's website states: "Firearms/ammunition may not be carried in carry-on baggage." I can only assume that would also apply to concealed carry as well. (The site does not specify what penalties --- civil or criminal --- apply to violating this policy.)

The latter seems more accurate than the former in general terms; in order for something to be a felony, there has to be a law against it (duh). I tried briefly to find a federal law that covers concealed firearms on Amtrak but didn't (which isn't to say one does not exist, just that I didn't find one in the 5 minutes I allotted to the task). When people say it is a felony to carry a gun on Amtrak, they might be referring to state and local laws.

They are a very special "private" company . . .

That is interesting. One one's person is not "in carry-on baggage"-- I imagine the intent of this rule is to keep firearms out of the passenger compartments of the train but if that is the case, it doesn't say what it means. (It is always a good idea for a rule to say what it means). I also couldn't find any federal law that says violating Amtrak policy is a crime.

So you have a few options: You could email the Amtrak police-- this would get you the most direct answer. If you actually have some sort of want or need to do it, you could make sure you are not in violation of any state or local laws, and then just do it. It is unlikely it would be discovered though it is also unclear what the consequences of being caught would be. You can't be charged with violating a law that doesn't exist (though that hasn't stopped Amtrak Police from doing it in the past with photographers).

If I had some need to do it and it were legal in all the local jurisdictions I planned on traveling through, I'd probably do it (I'd probably research it a little further first). But that doesn't mean you should do it.

Thanks. I actually am not concerned about state laws, as I have CHLs valid in both Oregon and Washington, so I'm covered when it comes to obeying state laws.

What I'm worried about is that there is some federal law that I'd be violating, and end up in prison on a felony weapons charge. Clearly I'm going to have to do some more research about this, including talking to Amtrak personnel (and their police). Interesting idea that a "private" company can have its own police force... :rolleyes:

If anyone has any experience carrying on Amtrak I'd be very interested to hear about it.

Edited to add that posters in another forum have cited 27 CFR 178.31, and that this applies both to aviation and to train travel. Personally I don't see it, and if Amtrak uses this as justification I intend to challenge it.

There's a wider context to consider. The quote above comes from a page describing the procedures that must be followed if one wants to transport firearms in checked bags on Amtrak. The quote is an aside that occurs during a discussion of how checked baggage works. Apparently, there are some Amtrak routes that don't have checked baggage, and if one's itinerary includes one of those segments, then one can't transport firearms at all ... since that would put the firearms into the passenger compartment, where they're forbidden.

It's almost a throw-away quote as an aside ... "well, since firearms are obviously forbidden inside the passenger compartment, if your luggage can't stay in the baggage car the whole time, you can't check the firearm".

But I agree: it would better if one could find an explicit rule addressing the situation.

Obligatory disclaimer: I've ridden Amtrak exactly once in my life, and I didn't have a firearm with me, so these are merely uninformed opinions ...

Amtrak banned all weapons, and in 2009 congress passed a law to allow customers to carry weapons in their checked bags following pretty much the same policy at airlines.

You need to let them know 24 hours in advance, present it for inspection, locked case, all that stuff.

I don't believe that extends to concealed carrying, unless you are a law enforcement officer, on official business, with prior approval from the Amtrak Police

cordelli:

You are correct about the checked luggage issue. As of last December Amtrak allows unloaded firearms in secure, checked luggage (like airlines do).

That law did not affect concealed carry on board Amtrak trains. There are two points to resolve here:

1. Does Amtrak in fact bar carrying concealed on its trains (as noted above this is unclear)?
2. If concealed carry is in fact barred, under what authority is Amtrak instituting this policy?

I'll have a chat with some Amtrak folks this week and report back on what I find out.

See Pinkerton National Detective Agency, which once had more agents than the US had in the Army.

That's the best idea.

They can just fall back on the "private property" thing-- but the law about CCW and posting signs in Oregon is interesting.

Given the fact that Amtrak didn't even allow unloaded firearms in baggage until Congress forced them to, I find it very unlikely that they would allow concealed weapons in the passenger compartment.

They are a unique private company, but a private company nonetheless, so they can pretty much make whatever rules they want. That is why Congress cannot actually tell them what to do, but only threaten to withhold funding if they don't do it. I don't know what their rules are, but remember that if you are found violating their rules but not breaking any laws, then in addition to making you leave, they can ban you from Amtrak trains in the future. If I were you, I would not carry a concealed weapon on an Amtrak train unless you have a statement from Amtrak in writing stating that it is permissible. Don't rely on what some employee says, because you have no proof, and even if you do, they can always say that the employee gave you wrong information, etc.

BNSF, UP et al all have their own police force, railroad police date way back- got to have someone to beat up the hobos.

They also have their own federal retirement board-- railroads sure are special in this country.