As I said, if the alarm cannot be resolved then the passenger cannot be allowed entry to the sterile area. Nor can I comment on what procedures may or may not be used to resolve the alarm.

Believe it or not, completely innocent people occasionally get denied access to the sterile area. It happens. Not every story has a happy ending. Not every drive to the grocery store ends up with a gallon of milk, sometimes it ends in a ride to the hospital, or a tow to the repair shop.

TSA will do everything that is within its authority and power to resolve an alarm, but sometimes that is just not enough. Nothing is perfect, and “what if’s” tend to get repetitive.

I was unaware this was a race. I have “real world” TSO experience, which is what makes my presence here valuable. I have answered the OP’s question to the best of my ability, and several other questions as well. If your wish is to discuss the policies then I suggest we take it to the other part of this forum.

First off, If you knew the procedures that I know (n.b. know) as they were not only explained to me, I asked if I could read it while they performed it on me so I could know what to expect at other airports and I was told yes so if you want to talk about violating the infamous SSI, it's been done (along with a very poor quality discretely taken cell phone pic [hey, I may be old and bald but I'm not stupid ;)]).

As to the happy ending, yes you're right and imho, that is simply due to the inefficiencies to the TSA and how it does not use its very own resources to the best of their ability because if they did (with this particular subject at hand as well as others, imho, there would be a whole lot less problems as you would get a whole lot more positive outcomes (even if the pax is denied access to the secure area with a honey ("let's see if we can resolve this") vs vinegar ("D-Y-T-W-F-T") approach

As to your "real world" TSO experience, yes you have me and many others with that but.....

How many airports do you work at and how large is your airport? How many have you traveled thru? WIth my 100k plus miles flown each year and with the numerous airports I have transited, I could tell you about procedures that you didn't know existed (and no, I will not name my sources so you're gonna have to trust me on that one but suffice it to say, the person's clearance level is a lot hight than yours)

If an alarm is unable to be resolved and someone is denied access to the sterile area, does the TSA just let the person go home and try again another day? Does the TSA "refer" the person to actual law enforcement? If someone is causing so much concern that they are denied access to the sterile area, it seems hard to believe they would be allowed to just walk away.


I would avoid the extra radiation from a CastScope. Not clear if it mandatory, but an uncalibrated X-Ray device in close proximity to my body? No thanks. By the way, if it is mandatory, what about for pregnant women? I would hope that they would not be required to be x-rayed.

http://www.tek84.com/castscope.html - product information from vendor.
http://www.tsa.gov/approach/tech/castscope.shtm - TSA information
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8PMpbj2DQ4 - YouTube demonstration video

Also, a past thread on CastScope here at Flyertalk, and an article from USA Today in 2010 - Amputees worry about airport security screening.

Semantics, my child, semantics..

TSORon - you said, "If the boot swab alarms the ETD system you will be asked to remove it so that it can be x-rayed. If you refuse to do so then you most likely will not be boarding your intended aircraft." Then when I said you said you required the boot to come off (and sited the TSA website locations where it said it would and should not be required or asked of us), you said you didn't say "required", you said "asked".

Please. You can "ask", but if we say "no", we can't go any further. Same as saying it is required. You can try to pussyfoot around your difference from what your own agency is telling the traveling public, but you are saying we MUST remove whatever you want us to.

I've traveled between the US and Canada several times in a knee-length walking boot and between the US and Great Britain with an ankle brace. I have yet to be "asked" to remove either. The TSA agent merely did several non-invasive measures to resolve the alarm (just by walking through the WTMD it is going to alarm).

personal comment removed by moderator

Ah, the old "tough ****, it's just collateral damage" attitude. So what if folks are denied the ability to travel, even if innocent. Perfect example of what's wrong with government. Function follows form.
Plenty of examples of that either not being true or that being used as a fishing expedition to try and run a dragnet.

Folks,

We've removed several remarks that either personalize the discussion or simply stir the pot. Let's please stick the OP's topic of navigating the c/p in walking boot and exchanging info rather than brickbats. Thanks.

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essxjay
TS/S moderator

TSA has no authority to do anything else. We might refer them to local law enforcement, but that depends on the situation. Not all situations are appropriate for LEO involvement.

Nothing is perfect. This includes TSA procedures. But as with any other human endeavor, we do our best.

There are plenty examples of just about everything, it’s how we wish to perceive them that helps to form our opinions. You have one opinion and I have another.

Which is why we need accountability & recourse against imperfect procedures. THis would include compensation for real & liquidated damages, and punitive damages should the violation be willful.

If a private individual or representative of a corporation causes you damages, you have recourse to hold them accountable. The same needs to apply for TSA procedures and actions.

If you do not remove the boot when 'asked' you may be required to do an x-ray. Most now use a castscope (best option), some use an older portable x-ray. Either way it can take 30 - 60 minutes extra and there are extremely valid concerns about exposure as my wife was once subjected to 8 (yes, eight) x-rays of her walking boot that included twisting in ways that were extremely painful.

Welcome to the banana republic of Amerika.

First and foremost, welcome to the forum in case no one has done so for you yet.

Policies are public domain information. If you look hard enough you can read them yourself, they are not protected information. Procedures, OTOH, ARE protected information. Way back in about 1972 the United States Congress authorized a special category of information that should not be allowed into the public domain. Our procedures fall into that category, and with good reason. Allowing someone access to specific and detailed information on how we do what we do may allow them to formulate a way to bypass those procedures. As we saw on 9/11 the results of such can be catastrophic.

Your perception may indeed be accurate. I cannot say for sure, I have never been involved in such a thing as a TSO. OTOH, I know of several TSO’s written up or fired for violating both policy and/or procedures. How the TSA handles its internal discipline is not and should not be a publicly viewable process. Ever hear the term “Praise in public, punish in private”? Some extreme cases may fall outside of that bit of wisdom, but very few. Corrective action taken by any authority figure should always be in private, out of the sight of peers and public alike. You will find that corporate American agrees with that policy, as does the government.

this thread went south and it's too bad
 

lots of flyers are in the OP's situation so please continue with PRACTICAL advice. Discussion, baiting, rudeness will result in consequences.

thanks

squeakr

co mod TSS Practical ISsues

Security and a medical walking boot
 

I'm flying out of PHX T4 on Friday. Last week I was given a 'walking boot' at my podiatrist's office because of a fractured metatarsal bone in my left foot.

What's the best way to go through security with this? Or do I even have a choice?

Yes, it is possible for me to walk on that foot without the boot, I mostly hop around, and try to grab things to lean on. If I did that, I'm assuming I could put the boot through the scanner with my carry-on bags.

I could possibly just wear normal shoes (probably running shoes), and if that happens, I'd be hopping similarly to what I described above. Depending how I feel that morning, I may just opt for this, rather than have to explain the boot to everyone I meet along the way.

If I had to stand for the NOS machine, I'd probably put more weight on my right foot, would that be a problem? My last few times through PHX, I seem to always get pushed to that.

Or I guess I could just opt out, but I've never done that...yet.

I am currently in a walking boot because of extreme tendinitis throughout my right leg from my foot to my hip. I am on a trip right now, and as my physical therapist couldn't come with me, she prescribed a boot because of the amount of walking that I will be doing. Leaving DEN in the US was no problem. They just swabbed the boot and it was a quick and easy process with TSA. I flew into STU in Germany, still no problems. At customs I was asked to step aside and explain the circumstances for said boot; no problem. Left the airport and was in Stuttgart Germany for 3 weeks with family. Arrived back at the airport this morning to fly on to HAM Germany. Security was a problem this time. TSA states that you don't have to take off the boot, but I was A. Not under TSA jurisdiction and B. Also a German citizen that has to abide by citizen rules. As a minor I was sat down and asked to explain the boot again; no problem. Then they told me to take off the boot. I began to take off the boot, and as soon as I took the top strap off and released the air cast I was met with pain. I sat up and told them that i was not going to further take off the boot, and that they could take a swab. I was greeted with hostility and was told that if I moved i would be forced out of the airport and to wait for her to return. The attendant then proceeded to get the police involved because they "had" to guard me. A 15 year old American-German citizen. Ok fine. I sit there and wait. And wait. And wait. All the while having a police man with a semi-automatic weapon 4 feet away from me. Finally I had had enough and started to take off the boot when the police man sternly asked me what I was doing. I'm doing what you people originally wanted me to do, I said. They then swabbed the outside of the boot not the inside, tested it, proceeded to tell me that it was free of explosives and that i could put it back on. Overall a completely different experience than that in the US. Be aware of the policies in the airports you will me traveling to, and inform yourself. That's all I have to say.

While your experience was unfortunate, the bottom line is that many people believe that the entire world acts the way their country acts.

If you look at FT, you will see all manner of people bashing TSA for an experience they had half a world away or complaining that because one does not tip in country A, one need not tip in Country B.

Of course one must obey local law.