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-   -   Rapiscaners DO penetrate through to Bone! (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1234323-rapiscaners-do-penetrate-through-bone.html)

eturowski Jul 8, 2011 11:07 am

The survey reports for each backscatter machine in use are available from the TSA's website.

http://www.tsa.gov/research/reading/...arch_2011.shtm.

These documents give the levels of ionizing radiation emitted within the target area as well as in the areas surrounding the machines (notice that some of the machines have non-zero radiation readings - i.e. leaking outside of the target areas).

BearX220 Jul 8, 2011 11:15 am


Originally Posted by eturowski (Post 16693161)
The survey reports for each backscatter machine in use are available from the TSA's website.

For the same reason the Motion Picture Academy hires Price Waterhouse to count the Oscar ballots, I want an objective third party to run those tests and publicize the results, which TSA has refused to allow.

FliesWay2Much Jul 8, 2011 11:20 am


Originally Posted by eturowski (Post 16693161)
The survey reports for each backscatter machine in use are available from the TSA's website.

http://www.tsa.gov/research/reading/...arch_2011.shtm.

These documents give the levels of ionizing radiation emitted within the target area as well as in the areas surrounding the machines (notice that some of the machines have non-zero radiation readings - i.e. leaking outside of the target areas).

I did a quick sampling of the data. They were performed by company technicians. There is no indication of any sort of independent verification. The errors someone else in the company noted were administrative.

Also, the documents I reviewed were all test done at "site acceptance." This means they were tested shortly after they were installed at the airport. We don't know how they have been operating since installation. For sure, at site acceptance, the only ones operating them were the contractors. The clerks wouldn't start using them until acceptance testing was completed.

eturowski Jul 8, 2011 11:32 am

Yeah, I have previously gone over these things with a fine-toothed comb.

TSA absolutely does not allow independent testing of any of their functional machines (only pieces-parts, which is what JHU "tested").

The test results posted under "Posted May 24, 2011" (scroll down) were obtained after it was discovered that the initial reports were "erroneous". Most of these new tests were performed just this year. Otherwise, neither Rapiscan nor the TSA has posted any continuing calibration reports on these machines.

Yadda, yadda, yadda, it's SSI. :rolleyes:

N965VJ Jul 8, 2011 12:34 pm


Originally Posted by Bart (Post 16689566)
The radiation you're exposed to in an AIT during a 6 second scan is miniscule compared to sitting in front of a computer, even far less than in front of a TV.


It's time to upgrade that computer, dont'cha think? :p:D

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...fd67-1-1-1.jpg

CavePearl Jul 8, 2011 12:50 pm

I have a question for Bart, or any other TSA employee on this forum working in locations utilizing backscatter. This is a serious question, and I would like to know the answer.

Your employer has assured you that these machines are absolutely safe. Since you are required daily to be in close proximity of the radiation-emitting machines do you have to sign any type of memorandum of understanding regarding their safety?

Boggie Dog Jul 8, 2011 12:50 pm


Originally Posted by sweeper20 (Post 16692045)
This above is code for "Darn, I'm in way over my head and I don't have any snappy responses...uh oh"

No, it's more like a 5 year old getting mad then taking his ball and going home.

WillCAD Jul 8, 2011 3:25 pm


Originally Posted by CavePearl (Post 16693780)
I have a question for Bart, or any other TSA employee on this forum working in locations utilizing backscatter. This is a serious question, and I would like to know the answer.

Your employer has assured you that these machines are absolutely safe. Since you are required daily to be in close proximity of the radiation-emitting machines do you have to sign any type of memorandum of understanding regarding their safety?

I have another question for the resident TSOs:

Have any of you ever considered putting a dosimeter badge in your pocket while you work the AIT? Yes, yes, I know you're not allowed to wear them, it would disturb the uniform, but I bet money there is no rule or reg prohibiting you from carrying one in your pocket during your shift. Bart - I especially challenge you to put your money where your mouth is - get a dosimeter and check your dosage.

Caradoc Jul 8, 2011 3:29 pm


Originally Posted by WillCAD (Post 16694863)
I bet money there is no rule or reg prohibiting you from carrying one in your pocket during your shift.

I'd bet there's at least been one of those "SSI" memos stating that it's forbidden.

The bigger question is why so many TSA employees haven't asked "why not?"

BearX220 Jul 8, 2011 3:35 pm


Originally Posted by Caradoc (Post 16694884)
I'd bet there's at least been one of those "SSI" memos stating that it's forbidden.

The bigger question is why so many TSA employees haven't asked "why not?"

"Do you want to work today?" And they have a household to feed. But the still-fantastic TSO churn rate suggests that even some who aren't in it for the larceny opportunities may be getting the message.

WChou Jul 8, 2011 4:54 pm

Here are few on the job requirements when I was at a company working for the federal government:
When in a room that was not loud in my opinion, I had to wear hearing protection.
When in a room with a bit of harmless airborne dust, I had to wear a filter mask
When in a room with a bit of dirty water dripping, I had to wear a Tyvek suit
When climbing a ladder 10 feet off the ground, I was given a safety harness and spotter

Heck, I had a higher chance of being fired for not wearing earplugs then if I destroyed all the equipment in a facility with a sledgehammer. What is the TSA hiding when it does not allow those working around x-rays to wear dosimeters?

Vecturist14 Jul 8, 2011 5:53 pm


Originally Posted by WChou (Post 16695318)
Here are few on the job requirements when I was at a company working for the federal government:
When in a room that was not loud in my opinion, I had to wear hearing protection.
When in a room with a bit of harmless airborne dust, I had to wear a filter mask
When in a room with a bit of dirty water dripping, I had to wear a Tyvek suit
When climbing a ladder 10 feet off the ground, I was given a safety harness and spotter

Heck, I had a higher chance of being fired for not wearing earplugs then if I destroyed all the equipment in a facility with a sledgehammer. What is the TSA hiding when it does not allow those working around x-rays to wear dosimeters?

Likewise, when I was an electron microscopy tech I had to wear a dosimeter on the minute chance the microscope was leaking radiation if the vacuum column wasn't aligned properly. Turned it in every three months and got a new one. Techs who worked radioactive isotopes actually had to wear 2 dosimeters (badge plus ring) even though they were behind a safety shield. Tiny exposures on a regular basis do add up.

GUWonder Jul 8, 2011 5:57 pm

The admission isn't really new news -- rather a confirmation of that which should have already been known.

janetdoe Jul 8, 2011 6:09 pm


Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much (Post 16693041)
Have you seen the performance and operational specs? I think they are on the EPIC web site. There are performance parameters and other technical requirements in both documents. I suspect they are reasonably current and my give you a sanity check for your calculations.

As far as I can tell, every useful number is blacked out in the documents they released to EPIC. :rolleyes: But I have seen several third-party sources that confirm a 20-30 keV beam, e.g., http://www.diagnosticimaging.com/saf...113619/1521147.

The best clue, however, are the Rapiscan patents: http://www.google.com/patents?id=9tM...%2C1295&edge=0

ND Sol Jul 8, 2011 7:37 pm


Originally Posted by Caradoc (Post 16692571)
Missing skillsets: "Accountability" and "responsibility."

Reminds of Jack Nicholson's line in As Good As It Gets when he is asked, “How do you write women so well?” “I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability.”


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