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ID checker asking questions - name, destination etc.

ID checker asking questions - name, destination etc.

Old Jul 4, 2011, 2:37 pm
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by castrobenes
If you do something to arouse my suspicions, then I can't clear you to go any further unless I can resolve my concerns. If you won't cooperate to help me do that, then I can't complete the screening process. You have to go through the screening process in order to get to your flight.

Standard pat downs are part of the screening process. TSOs and management officials in charge of the checkpoint have the explicit authority to utilize all parts of the screening process whenever the situation dictates.

castro
Then you admit retaliation when passengers refuse to follow standard procedure. And what is the limit on the new requirements that you can devise on the spot to check my cooperation? Recite the Pledge of Allegiance? Rub my stomach and pat my head? Where does in end? When you have been thoroughly convinced I am not a threat?

If I arouse your suspicions? I arouse your suspicions by following procedure that your employer defines on its web site?

Do you realize the tyrannical authoritarian threatening nature of what you have just written?
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Old Jul 4, 2011, 2:39 pm
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by Wally Bird
It's nonsense, pure and simple, just another attempt at dominion by low-level government workers.
^^^
BTW Castro do you know Ponter?
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Old Jul 4, 2011, 2:41 pm
  #63  
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Originally Posted by castrobenes
Interesting thread...I have never seen this requirement implemented. However I don't have any problem with a TSO asking for a passenger to pronounce his name at the TDC station. If that passenger doesn't want to communicate with the TSO or supervisor, then I don't see how your ID can be verified.

If you just want to insult TSOs, well then you and every member of your family is getting a pat down.

castro
How do you reconcile this release of testosterone with the reality that there is no law preventing me from pronouncing my name anyway I choose? Taking things one step further, there is no law prohibiting me from changing the pronunciation of my name as often as I wish.

As for the retaliatory stuff, go ahead...make my day. We have the biggest weapon: the videocamera.
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Old Jul 4, 2011, 2:51 pm
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
How do you reconcile this release of testosterone with the reality that there is no law preventing me from pronouncing my name anyway I choose? Taking things one step further, there is no law prohibiting me from changing the pronunciation of my name as often as I wish.

As for the retaliatory stuff, go ahead...make my day. We have the biggest weapon: the videocamera.
There certainly is no law requiring you to pronounce your name. But I wouldn't be telling you that you broke the law, I would merely be asking you to assist me in verifying your identity.

I am not particularly afraid of video cameras. I have done some modelling, and I look good. Women swoon.

Seriously TSA loses when it reacts with emotion. All your camera would record is me trying to do is help you not threaten you in any way. I know enough to respond with a helpful demeanor.

castro
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Old Jul 4, 2011, 2:51 pm
  #65  
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Originally Posted by castrobenes
If that passenger doesn't want to communicate with the TSO or supervisor, then I don't see how your ID can be verified.
The problem with your argument is passengers who cannot communicate with the TDC. Every day at places like LAX or SFO there must be hundreds of departing visitors who speak no English. Probably lots of elderly who came to the US for a wedding or that once in a life trip to visit the grandkids in the US.

If, as you say, verbal communication is required as part of the process to verify an ID, then TSA must have a policy in place to have rapid access to translators for every language. If TSA cannot communicate with someone whose only language is an obscure tribal dialect from Tibet then that person can never be "verified" by your argument and will always miss their plane.

Of course all TSA rules are very US centered for English speaking Americans and far too little thought is given to accomodate foreign visiters. In other countries signs and staff are multi lingual and they try to help visitors as they appreciate the value of tourist dollars. Through arrogance and ignorance the US actively encourages foreigners to stay home.
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Old Jul 4, 2011, 2:55 pm
  #66  
 
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Originally Posted by Flaflyer
The problem with your argument is passengers who cannot communicate with the TDC. etc etc etc
I was going to respond, but you replied in far more eloquent fashion than this ESL speaker could.
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Old Jul 4, 2011, 3:05 pm
  #67  
 
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Originally Posted by TheRoadie
It's OF CONCERN to us that an undocumented, uncommunicated (by web site or signage) demand to verbalize ones name will mutate tomorrow into a demand to verbalize ones destination, home address, phone number, jock size or whatever else the TDC decides to make up on the spot to enhance their ability to execute the "Big Catch."

The documented documentation requirement should be sufficient.

Why is it suddenly not enough?
Because it's not about the document; it's about putting you in your place.
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Old Jul 4, 2011, 3:08 pm
  #68  
 
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Originally Posted by Flaflyer
The problem with your argument is passengers who cannot communicate with the TDC. Every day at places like LAX or SFO there must be hundreds of departing visitors who speak no English. Probably lots of elderly who came to the US for a wedding or that once in a life trip to visit the grandkids in the US.

If, as you say, verbal communication is required as part of the process to verify an ID, then TSA must have a policy in place to have rapid access to translators for every language. If TSA cannot communicate with someone whose only language is an obscure tribal dialect from Tibet then that person can never be "verified" by your argument and will always miss their plane.

Of course all TSA rules are very US centered for English speaking Americans and far too little thought is given to accomodate foreign visiters. In other countries signs and staff are multi lingual and they try to help visitors as they appreciate the value of tourist dollars. Through arrogance and ignorance the US actively encourages foreigners to stay home.

This is a great argument. But in making this argument at the checkpoint, you will have established that you can communicate. At this point the argument will be whether someone can refuse to communicate/cooperate with the TDC.

In the end, you will probably travel. But as a TSM, I would feel uncertain and confused about whether I have the ability to screen someone who refuses to cooperate with the screening process. I would have to consult with senior leaders including TSA law enforcement. I would not want to make a misstep so this process would require consultation before we could allow you to proceed with the screening process. I have no idea how long this will take, and many will be concerned about your refusal to cooperate.

Just saying...

castro
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Old Jul 4, 2011, 3:13 pm
  #69  
 
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Originally Posted by castrobenes
But as a TSM
As a (cough) TSM can you confirm this "say your name" thing is an agency-wide requirement or just local gimme power initiatives ?

No, of course you can't. I beg your pardon for asking.
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Old Jul 4, 2011, 3:14 pm
  #70  
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Originally Posted by castrobenes
Interesting thread...I have never seen this requirement implemented. However I don't have any problem with a TSO asking for a passenger to pronounce his name at the TDC station. If that passenger doesn't want to communicate with the TSO or supervisor, then I don't see how your ID can be verified.

If you just want to insult TSOs, well then you and every member of your family is getting a pat down.

castro
This response and all his others are perfect examples of the attitude that has made the TSA so despised. Thank you for expressing it so clearly.
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Old Jul 4, 2011, 3:20 pm
  #71  
 
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Originally Posted by castrobenes
...At this point the argument will be whether someone can refuse to communicate/cooperate with the TDC....
Nonsense and balderdash. Speaking English in the TDC's presence does not have anything to do with the TDC's expansion of the requirements to pass their scrutiny.

A well-trained terrorist would practice, practice, and practice saying the fake name on the boarding pass and ID they're presenting.

PATRIOTS refuse to knuckle under to harassment and mission creep of TDCs who exceed their authority to EXAMINE DOCUMENTS presented to them as the web site's documented requirement stands.

Now you're claiming TDCs are trained BDOs? And you're going to delay, harass, and retaliate against travelers who are following the published requirements? And discover reasons to articulate your "nervousness" and "caution" as you escalate the situation to LEOs?

Resistance to improperly applied requirements, which TSA CANNOT apply to all passengers for reasons discussed above, does not mean we are unscreenable. It just means you cannot force us to jump through every hoop made up on the spot.

And these hoops do NOTHING to enhance security, except (in TSA's eyes) identify the "troublemakers" who resist your authoritah.
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Old Jul 4, 2011, 3:31 pm
  #72  
 
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Originally Posted by castrobenes
This is a great argument. But in making this argument at the checkpoint, you will have established that you can communicate. At this point the argument will be whether someone can refuse to communicate/cooperate with the TDC.

In the end, you will probably travel. But as a TSM, I would feel uncertain and confused about whether I have the ability to screen someone who refuses to cooperate with the screening process. I would have to consult with senior leaders including TSA law enforcement. I would not want to make a misstep so this process would require consultation before we could allow you to proceed with the screening process. I have no idea how long this will take, and many will be concerned about your refusal to cooperate.

Just saying...

castro
Give you a hint castrobenes, on 16 June 2011 was the best 1.25 hours I've ever spent with 9 (all of them lead screeners & above, including screening manager Steve Teduci) at Denver (DEN). Your female psychic readers were actually insulted when I asked them how long they have been BDO's and how was the 1 week course. They actually left the screening room in a huff.

Next time I'll try to make sure it is 9 screeners for 2.5 hours. I sincerely look forward to this century's Bastille Day at your TSA checkpoint. If I'm lucky I'll take photos of you & your cohorts.
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Old Jul 4, 2011, 3:35 pm
  #73  
 
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Originally Posted by castrobenes
In the end, you will probably travel. But as a TSM, I would feel uncertain and confused about whether I have the ability to screen someone who refuses to cooperate with the screening process. I would have to consult with senior leaders including TSA law enforcement. I would not want to make a misstep so this process would require consultation before we could allow you to proceed with the screening process. I have no idea how long this will take, and many will be concerned about your refusal to cooperate.

Just saying...

castro
And this reply shows how short-sighted some of the TSA policies can be. What about those people who don't understand what you are asking? What about (as has been said many times now) the hearing impaired, those who do not speak English, or those who do not understand regional, often heavy American accents?

They are not intentionally delaying the screening process - they have no idea what you are asking (or why). I have encountered this several times, and I can tell you that I have also heard the responses in various languages once people understand what is being asked of them, and once they experience the fashion in which several TDCs ask it of those who do not speak English.

Fly from IAD one day or LAS one day and see how those who do not speak American English as their primary language are treated by some TSOs. It really is shocking.
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Old Jul 4, 2011, 3:42 pm
  #74  
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Originally Posted by TheRoadie
A well-trained terrorist would practice, practice, and practice saying the fake name on the boarding pass and ID they're presenting.
Actually, even a poorly trained terrorists only needs to remember not speak English near the checkpoint.

Add a Eastern European passport with a difficult name and TSA personnel like castrobenes will simply let them through.

Castrobenes simply illustrated once again the theater involved and the vindictiveness of TSA personnel.
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Old Jul 4, 2011, 4:53 pm
  #75  
 
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Originally Posted by MaximumSisu
Oh so wrong! Throughout history, those who acquiesce to government intrusions have faced more, not less, subsequent intrusion.
...and Often1 will be happily on his/her way while others are squawking about government intrusion have been delayed until their flight has departed and they are pulling up their pants having been forced to undergo a more thorough search purely out of spite.

Sorry, but sometimes people here can be just a little paranoid.

Personally I avoid such insanity this simply by avoiding the USA (either for a visit or transit) until the stupidity on both sides of the argument stops. I won't be holding my breath for that to happen.

Last edited by BadgerBoi; Jul 4, 2011 at 4:59 pm
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