ID checker asking questions - name, destination etc.
#61
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
If you do something to arouse my suspicions, then I can't clear you to go any further unless I can resolve my concerns. If you won't cooperate to help me do that, then I can't complete the screening process. You have to go through the screening process in order to get to your flight.
Standard pat downs are part of the screening process. TSOs and management officials in charge of the checkpoint have the explicit authority to utilize all parts of the screening process whenever the situation dictates.
castro
Standard pat downs are part of the screening process. TSOs and management officials in charge of the checkpoint have the explicit authority to utilize all parts of the screening process whenever the situation dictates.
castro
If I arouse your suspicions? I arouse your suspicions by following procedure that your employer defines on its web site?
Do you realize the tyrannical authoritarian threatening nature of what you have just written?
#63
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,153
Interesting thread...I have never seen this requirement implemented. However I don't have any problem with a TSO asking for a passenger to pronounce his name at the TDC station. If that passenger doesn't want to communicate with the TSO or supervisor, then I don't see how your ID can be verified.
If you just want to insult TSOs, well then you and every member of your family is getting a pat down.
castro
If you just want to insult TSOs, well then you and every member of your family is getting a pat down.
castro
As for the retaliatory stuff, go ahead...make my day. We have the biggest weapon: the videocamera.
#64
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 145
How do you reconcile this release of testosterone with the reality that there is no law preventing me from pronouncing my name anyway I choose? Taking things one step further, there is no law prohibiting me from changing the pronunciation of my name as often as I wish.
As for the retaliatory stuff, go ahead...make my day. We have the biggest weapon: the videocamera.
As for the retaliatory stuff, go ahead...make my day. We have the biggest weapon: the videocamera.
I am not particularly afraid of video cameras. I have done some modelling, and I look good. Women swoon.
Seriously TSA loses when it reacts with emotion. All your camera would record is me trying to do is help you not threaten you in any way. I know enough to respond with a helpful demeanor.
castro
#65
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Sunshine State
Programs: Deltaworst Peon Level, TSA "Layer 21 Club", NW WP RIP
Posts: 11,370
If, as you say, verbal communication is required as part of the process to verify an ID, then TSA must have a policy in place to have rapid access to translators for every language. If TSA cannot communicate with someone whose only language is an obscure tribal dialect from Tibet then that person can never be "verified" by your argument and will always miss their plane.
Of course all TSA rules are very US centered for English speaking Americans and far too little thought is given to accomodate foreign visiters. In other countries signs and staff are multi lingual and they try to help visitors as they appreciate the value of tourist dollars. Through arrogance and ignorance the US actively encourages foreigners to stay home.
#67
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,145
It's OF CONCERN to us that an undocumented, uncommunicated (by web site or signage) demand to verbalize ones name will mutate tomorrow into a demand to verbalize ones destination, home address, phone number, jock size or whatever else the TDC decides to make up on the spot to enhance their ability to execute the "Big Catch."
The documented documentation requirement should be sufficient.
Why is it suddenly not enough?
The documented documentation requirement should be sufficient.
Why is it suddenly not enough?
#68
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 145
The problem with your argument is passengers who cannot communicate with the TDC. Every day at places like LAX or SFO there must be hundreds of departing visitors who speak no English. Probably lots of elderly who came to the US for a wedding or that once in a life trip to visit the grandkids in the US.
If, as you say, verbal communication is required as part of the process to verify an ID, then TSA must have a policy in place to have rapid access to translators for every language. If TSA cannot communicate with someone whose only language is an obscure tribal dialect from Tibet then that person can never be "verified" by your argument and will always miss their plane.
Of course all TSA rules are very US centered for English speaking Americans and far too little thought is given to accomodate foreign visiters. In other countries signs and staff are multi lingual and they try to help visitors as they appreciate the value of tourist dollars. Through arrogance and ignorance the US actively encourages foreigners to stay home.
If, as you say, verbal communication is required as part of the process to verify an ID, then TSA must have a policy in place to have rapid access to translators for every language. If TSA cannot communicate with someone whose only language is an obscure tribal dialect from Tibet then that person can never be "verified" by your argument and will always miss their plane.
Of course all TSA rules are very US centered for English speaking Americans and far too little thought is given to accomodate foreign visiters. In other countries signs and staff are multi lingual and they try to help visitors as they appreciate the value of tourist dollars. Through arrogance and ignorance the US actively encourages foreigners to stay home.
This is a great argument. But in making this argument at the checkpoint, you will have established that you can communicate. At this point the argument will be whether someone can refuse to communicate/cooperate with the TDC.
In the end, you will probably travel. But as a TSM, I would feel uncertain and confused about whether I have the ability to screen someone who refuses to cooperate with the screening process. I would have to consult with senior leaders including TSA law enforcement. I would not want to make a misstep so this process would require consultation before we could allow you to proceed with the screening process. I have no idea how long this will take, and many will be concerned about your refusal to cooperate.
Just saying...
castro
#69
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,974
#70
Suspended
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 78
Interesting thread...I have never seen this requirement implemented. However I don't have any problem with a TSO asking for a passenger to pronounce his name at the TDC station. If that passenger doesn't want to communicate with the TSO or supervisor, then I don't see how your ID can be verified.
If you just want to insult TSOs, well then you and every member of your family is getting a pat down.
castro
If you just want to insult TSOs, well then you and every member of your family is getting a pat down.
castro
#71
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Programs: DL MM Gold
Posts: 1,676
A well-trained terrorist would practice, practice, and practice saying the fake name on the boarding pass and ID they're presenting.
PATRIOTS refuse to knuckle under to harassment and mission creep of TDCs who exceed their authority to EXAMINE DOCUMENTS presented to them as the web site's documented requirement stands.
Now you're claiming TDCs are trained BDOs? And you're going to delay, harass, and retaliate against travelers who are following the published requirements? And discover reasons to articulate your "nervousness" and "caution" as you escalate the situation to LEOs?
Resistance to improperly applied requirements, which TSA CANNOT apply to all passengers for reasons discussed above, does not mean we are unscreenable. It just means you cannot force us to jump through every hoop made up on the spot.
And these hoops do NOTHING to enhance security, except (in TSA's eyes) identify the "troublemakers" who resist your authoritah.
#72
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: boca raton, florida
Posts: 621
This is a great argument. But in making this argument at the checkpoint, you will have established that you can communicate. At this point the argument will be whether someone can refuse to communicate/cooperate with the TDC.
In the end, you will probably travel. But as a TSM, I would feel uncertain and confused about whether I have the ability to screen someone who refuses to cooperate with the screening process. I would have to consult with senior leaders including TSA law enforcement. I would not want to make a misstep so this process would require consultation before we could allow you to proceed with the screening process. I have no idea how long this will take, and many will be concerned about your refusal to cooperate.
Just saying...
castro
In the end, you will probably travel. But as a TSM, I would feel uncertain and confused about whether I have the ability to screen someone who refuses to cooperate with the screening process. I would have to consult with senior leaders including TSA law enforcement. I would not want to make a misstep so this process would require consultation before we could allow you to proceed with the screening process. I have no idea how long this will take, and many will be concerned about your refusal to cooperate.
Just saying...
castro
Next time I'll try to make sure it is 9 screeners for 2.5 hours. I sincerely look forward to this century's Bastille Day at your TSA checkpoint. If I'm lucky I'll take photos of you & your cohorts.
#73
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
In the end, you will probably travel. But as a TSM, I would feel uncertain and confused about whether I have the ability to screen someone who refuses to cooperate with the screening process. I would have to consult with senior leaders including TSA law enforcement. I would not want to make a misstep so this process would require consultation before we could allow you to proceed with the screening process. I have no idea how long this will take, and many will be concerned about your refusal to cooperate.
Just saying...
castro
Just saying...
castro
They are not intentionally delaying the screening process - they have no idea what you are asking (or why). I have encountered this several times, and I can tell you that I have also heard the responses in various languages once people understand what is being asked of them, and once they experience the fashion in which several TDCs ask it of those who do not speak English.
Fly from IAD one day or LAS one day and see how those who do not speak American English as their primary language are treated by some TSOs. It really is shocking.
#74
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 15,967
Add a Eastern European passport with a difficult name and TSA personnel like castrobenes will simply let them through.
Castrobenes simply illustrated once again the theater involved and the vindictiveness of TSA personnel.
#75
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: QFF Gold, Flying Blue, Enrich
Posts: 5,366
Sorry, but sometimes people here can be just a little paranoid.
Personally I avoid such insanity this simply by avoiding the USA (either for a visit or transit) until the stupidity on both sides of the argument stops. I won't be holding my breath for that to happen.
Last edited by BadgerBoi; Jul 4, 2011 at 4:59 pm