I appreciate your response. I am sure it is based on your own experiences. My attitude is based on my experience.

I was a victim of attempted theft by a TSO at BWI. I called for another screener and was able to finish the screening with all my belonings still in my possession. I reported the matter to the FSD at BWI by mail and by calling his office directly. Six years later, I'm still waiting for any sort of follow-up or even an acknowledgement that my complaint was received. We'll just have to agree to disagree about how serious TSA is concerning theft by employees.

As opposed to being told to remove her blouse as part of the loan application procedure?

Sure, why not, it works just as well.

Would you be of the opinion that removing one's blouse as a condition of making a loan application is so far outside a bank officer's SOP that it was unlikely to be true?

Given the number of documented deviations between the TSA's public statements and the actions of TSA employees, I'm not sure that what the SOP says has any relevance whatsoever.

Consider:

Fact: The TSA states (via Bloghdad Bob) that photography is not prohibited at the checkpoint.

Fact: Multiple videos have been posted to Youtube showing incontrovertible evidence that TSA employees harass camera operators at the checkpoint.

Fact: Bloghdad Bob has posted in response to those videos that the actions of the TSA employees were within standards.

Conclusion: The TSA does not publicly forbid photography at the checkpoint but (at least tacitly if not actively) supports the harassment of camera operators by TSA employees.

Whether or not the SOP says a particular thing is irrelevant - because we all know that the TSA's employees have been known to deviate (occasionally widely, and certainly criminally) from the SOP on a regular basis.

I would say that removing one's blouse is NOT in the bank SOP. I would find it difficult to believe that the loan officer did this or that it was done on a regular basis by this and/or other loan officers. Especially since there are other bank employees in the immediate vicinity; I would find it difficult to believe that no one would have reported it.

As to whether or not it happened, I find it very unlikely that such an incident could occur unnoticed by others. There would at least be rumors of what happened, if not, at least an official inquiry.

Stranger things have happened. I won't deny that. But I'm not going to jump to any conclusions based solely on a post in FlyerTalk, especially in a forum that is decidedly anti-TSA. I'm inclined to believe that someone is baiting the issue.

Only the OP can clarify any of this by initiating an official complaint so that it can be investigated. If it did happen, then I hope all involved are punished. But I'm betting that it never happened and that this is something meant to inflame the highly anti-TSA sentiment resident here.

For clarity, then, passengers will not be asked to remove any clothing outside what is normally considered "outer clothing" (jackets, sweaters, vests) as any part of the TSA screening to enter the aircraft, correct? Being asked to remove a blouse, for instance, or being asked to remove a skirt or drop one's pants to knees/ankles...you are affirming these things are violations of TSA policy? Let's not play monkey-business with the language here, let's just have a straightforward response.

Is it not true that TSA has a well established history of trying out new "procedures" in "test markets" long before they go live with them systemwide? Many times in the past the SOP at one or two specific checkpoints was by design something that was definitely NOT SOP at the vast majority of other airports while TSA "evaluated effectiveness" (or gauged public acceptance of the latest indignity). I find the OP's account very credible. There are people here (perhaps myself included) who might tend to see the worst and nitpick the minutia of any negative encounter with TSA. I did not get that impression at all from the OP. In fact she didn't even post in this hornets nest where it was sure to stir up controversy. She posted very innocently in TravelBuzz and it was moved here by the mod's. I saw nothing but an apparently unbiased account from the OP. I find Bart very credible. I've never seen anything posted that I considered untrue from him, legitimate differences of opinion aside. I thought the question about Customs is legit because I wondered that myself before the OP addressed that more or less to my satisfaction. That was a fair question. However TSA as an organisation has zero credibility in my book, starting from the top. They have shown no bounds in pulling new stuff out of their hat that just makes my jaw drop and saw WTeF every time I turn around. Stuff a few years ago I would have called people wacko nut jobs for even suggesting the government was plotting has become routine SOP today. TSA may have some good people in their ranks but as an organisation they are doing some really crazy and really bad stuff out there in the name of 'security'. Given an apparently unbiased, credible account of TSA doing something bad from a person with no apparent axe to grind vs a credible defender of TSA who is none the less, not privy to the facts vs TSA as an organisation that has no credibility at all and an established history of doing bad things...... I'm inclined to believe TSA did a bad thing in this case and that the incident went down exactly as described.

Perhaps TSO's taught by TSA.. to respect their elders? and not conduct patdown/strip searches all that often..

To clarify my experiences.. we've never received nude-o-scope screenings at a US airport.. its only after clearing customs YYC as we're passing through security that at Spring Break everyone was passing through..

But glad to know that they are just doing random nude-o-scoping.. and giving those who are randomly chosen the choice of a pat down..

As far as CATSA or TSA.. I have no clue.. and please don't quote me as knowing or asserting anything.. All I know was that the nude-o-scoping was happening at a Canadian Airport (particularly YYC in my experience) at security after passing through US immigration/customs.. for US bound flights..

I will have to ask my 5 year old's Kindergarten teacher.. as she was on the same flight as ours YYC-HOU.. whether she chose the nude-o-scope of patdown?.. and her accompanying daughter and 3 grandchildren.. what happened as well.

One of my closest friends just posted on Facebook 20 minutes ago that she was strip-searched by TSA at LAX airport. I called her immediately and got the full story. She had been delayed six days leaving Australia because of the volcanoes, and when she landed at LAX she had a string of flight delays and cancellations. She has been at LAX for over 12 hours and had boarding passes for a number of flights which were either overbooked or cancelled. She is a smoker, and she exited the secure area to smoke several times over the course of the day. The last time that she came through the checkpoint, TSA recognized that she had gone through security several times already and flagged her for a strip search. She says she was taken into a private room and had to take off all of her clothing down to her underwear. Her underwear stayed on.

Luckily, she seems remarkably nonchalant about the whole experience, but I am shaken. I'm urging her to file a lawsuit, but I don't know how I can convince her how sickeningly wrong what they did to her is. I know I'm going to have trouble sleeping tonight. What kind of loathsome disgusting people would do this to someone? Shame on you, TSA. Shame on your whole obscene coterie of sexual abusers.

Let me try again... perhaps someone with better English skills than I can assist, even if this is OT for this thread.

YYC has had MMW for quite some time, due to pressure from the US, in the US departures area. You step on a randomizer mat when you present your boarding pass. The randomizer gives a number or uses an arrow to tell the CATSA agent if you have been selected or not. Generally the percentage of people selected for additional screening is quite low. I have never seen ALL passengers selected at a Canadian airport and frankly the checkpoints are not set up for that.

IF you are selected (and it usually is not an entire family at one time), you are clearly given the choice of a pat down or a scan. The pat down is nothing near the US version, although YYC is generally viewed as one of the worst CATSA locations in Canada. Several of us have had challenges there with screeners.

Why have you not been chosen for a scan in the US? Not every airport or every checkpoint has a scanner in the US. If you fly twice a year from MCO, you haven't encountered a scanner because MCO has only recently received scanners, and only at certain checkpoints and thus only for certain carriers.

MCO is seen by many of us here as one of the worst airports in the US overall for security experience. However you as an infrequent, uneducated (in the ways of airport security), family traveller are exactly why MCO becomes a challenge for the other type of traveller. You may enjoy your experience because MCO tends to cater more towards that type of traveller than to me for instance.

There are many posters on TS&S who have never been selected for a scan even though they travel weekly. They know which airports and terminals and checkpoints have scanners, they plan ahead, they select their line carefully, etc.

I would far rather have the Canadian experience than the US experience when it comes to security screening.

Again, apologies to the OP for going off topic, but this misinformation keeps coming up in this thread.

He said "Sources diffeer, but the one I've read..." You want more than that? :)

I'm tempted to post here that 98% of all TSOs have been caught stealing on the job, so everyone here can quote that as "Sources differ, but the one I've read..."

It's just one person, and we know how much anecdotes are worth, but the only time I've been hassled at any point in the check-in/security/immigration/customs process in a Canadian airport is when I've been travelling to the US. Something I'm going to attempt to do by train (fly to Montreal, train to New York) the next time I have to.

I'm not sure why you responded to my post... but since you did...

I have personally witnessed the elderly being patted down without hesitation.

The most recent time, it was a woman who appeared to be about 70 years old, wearing a scarrrrrrrry skirt through the checkpoint. Even without an alarm from the WTMD, she still got frisked.

No one is exempt. And because there is not a publicly available procedure, anything goes. There's no way to know if it's out of bounds. Even when we think we know, it later turns out to be simply a test of something new.

I recall reading that you are an infrequent traveler. That you have not (or rarely have) seen it is a function of how infrequently you are in airports that rely heavily on body scanners.

For example, places like RDU (and, frequently, hubs like O'Hare) scan every single person when they can keep up. And regardless of age, if the TSO viewing the scan thinks he sees an anomaly, there will be a pat-down.

Each of us has a choice to care or not care. However, the belief that these things do not routinely occur, to travelers young and old, is patently absurd.

Bart, it's good of you to clarify and to discuss the SOP, so I hope you'll overlook the above reference to one of the older post.

I bolded the relevant part. The OP was in a private room without video or audio recording, and without any independent witness, and without anyone to represent her. I suppose their are tapes of her entering the room, but the only evidence that might back her up are the people who may be at fault.

They aren't going to raise their voice.

That points out a problem besides the TSA keeping the SOP under administrative wraps. The problem is that in that private room their is not accountability IF the traveler does not have a witness. Because most travel alone, and the TSA does not recommend a witness to the traveler, and the airlines are not willing to provide witnesses, and other factors, it is unlikely that the traveler will have a witness.

The room is ripe for abuse. But that's how TSA designed their system to work.

I have to ask "why"? Why did TSA design their system with the only control being "two employees"? And how can the presence of a second employee ever be considered sufficient for that situation?

(I know you did not design that horrible system, so this isn't a reference to you). Either TSA purposefully designed their system to be abused, or they are incompetent. Which is it?

Even if the victim had a witness of his/her choosing, there are some who would still deny that it ever happened the way it was reported.

With two reports in one week of women being strip searched, it would seem as if TSA is expanding this sordid activity.