Retaliatory search at DEN today
Apr 21, 2011, 4:17 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 549
Retaliatory search at DEN today
Here's the story as it happened not 30 minutes ago.
I arrived at DEN and went up to the checkpoint. I read the giant signs at the entrance to the cattle chutes and picked the appropriate line for my travel (premier access), but declined to show the non-TSA woman my mobile boarding pass.
She got really angry about it and apparently told another non-TSA person. Then she went and found a two-striper and got him involved. By this time I was already past the TDC, who had looked at my passport and my QR code had been scanned. He insisted he wanted to see my mobile, and I asked why that was necessary when I had just, in full sight of him, had the BP and ID checked by TDC. He asked me to 'Step over here.' and I refused. So he said he was going to get law enforcement. On his way to them, he tells the WTMD screener about me, and makes sure to clearly point me out.
Cop comes over, insists I show BP to the two-striper, so I hold it up about 2 feet away and say 'see?' Two-striper then decides he also needs my ID. I hold up the passport, and he glances at it briefly. I put it in my pocket. He decides to lecture me about how important his job is, so I tell him that I find itto be a joke and that it's nothing more than a make work program. Cop suggests to two-striper that he might want to get my name and find out what airline I'm flying. Two-striper demands ID again, and then says he will check and see if the airline wants 'someone like [me]' on the plane. I tell him that his threats are nit appreciated. He and the cop walk away.
I put my things through the x-ray, go through the WTMD and do not alarm. Blueshirt tells me I have to go in the glass holding pen. Time fir my retaliation frisk. Two female Blueshirts grab my things and I am directed to the secondary area where another woman is being hassled over a bottled water. Blueshirt puts new gloves on, out of the box, and I insist they be tested before she touches me. She does and then starts the 'sensitie areas' speil. I insist that she use anatomical terms, and she says she's going to touch breasts, buttocks and groin. She did a collar and waistband hands-in-the-clothes search, and did make contact with the labia.
During the time that she was doing this, someone (pax) asked why I was there. I said this is retaliation for not showing my BP to a non TSA person, and the male Blueshirt who was standing there to watch my grope gave me a dirty look. The ETD was negative, and the female blue shirt said to the male who was watching 'She's clear, what else can I do?'
The male Blueshirt shrugged, so I got my stuff and headed gateward. So far, no one has approached me, and no Blueshirts followed me on the train. We shall see about their threat to contact the airline.
I arrived at DEN and went up to the checkpoint. I read the giant signs at the entrance to the cattle chutes and picked the appropriate line for my travel (premier access), but declined to show the non-TSA woman my mobile boarding pass.
She got really angry about it and apparently told another non-TSA person. Then she went and found a two-striper and got him involved. By this time I was already past the TDC, who had looked at my passport and my QR code had been scanned. He insisted he wanted to see my mobile, and I asked why that was necessary when I had just, in full sight of him, had the BP and ID checked by TDC. He asked me to 'Step over here.' and I refused. So he said he was going to get law enforcement. On his way to them, he tells the WTMD screener about me, and makes sure to clearly point me out.
Cop comes over, insists I show BP to the two-striper, so I hold it up about 2 feet away and say 'see?' Two-striper then decides he also needs my ID. I hold up the passport, and he glances at it briefly. I put it in my pocket. He decides to lecture me about how important his job is, so I tell him that I find itto be a joke and that it's nothing more than a make work program. Cop suggests to two-striper that he might want to get my name and find out what airline I'm flying. Two-striper demands ID again, and then says he will check and see if the airline wants 'someone like [me]' on the plane. I tell him that his threats are nit appreciated. He and the cop walk away.
I put my things through the x-ray, go through the WTMD and do not alarm. Blueshirt tells me I have to go in the glass holding pen. Time fir my retaliation frisk. Two female Blueshirts grab my things and I am directed to the secondary area where another woman is being hassled over a bottled water. Blueshirt puts new gloves on, out of the box, and I insist they be tested before she touches me. She does and then starts the 'sensitie areas' speil. I insist that she use anatomical terms, and she says she's going to touch breasts, buttocks and groin. She did a collar and waistband hands-in-the-clothes search, and did make contact with the labia.
During the time that she was doing this, someone (pax) asked why I was there. I said this is retaliation for not showing my BP to a non TSA person, and the male Blueshirt who was standing there to watch my grope gave me a dirty look. The ETD was negative, and the female blue shirt said to the male who was watching 'She's clear, what else can I do?'
The male Blueshirt shrugged, so I got my stuff and headed gateward. So far, no one has approached me, and no Blueshirts followed me on the train. We shall see about their threat to contact the airline.
Apr 21, 2011, 4:27 pm
#2
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston
Programs: CO Platinum
Posts: 283
I do not understand why you made yourself into a target in the first place. Showing a BP is not invasive.
Apr 21, 2011, 4:37 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 549
I read the signs and got in line, which caused her to want me to exit the line so she could check whether I belonged in it. I didn't wait for her to get un-busy with the people who approached her before me.
It was a case of a sign clearly indicating which line to get in, me reading that sign, getting in line, and then finding no need toexit the line to find out what I already knew.
It was a case of a sign clearly indicating which line to get in, me reading that sign, getting in line, and then finding no need toexit the line to find out what I already knew.
Apr 21, 2011, 4:38 pm
#4
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
Please file a complaint on this experience at Talk to TSA. I am sorry you had a bad experience and hope some resolution can be provided. The link below should take you to the TTT page and you can file the complaint directly to the airport.
https://contact.tsa.dhs.gov/talktotsa/talktotsa.aspx
https://contact.tsa.dhs.gov/talktotsa/talktotsa.aspx
Apr 21, 2011, 4:50 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 549
Please file a complaint on this experience at Talk to TSA. I am sorry you had a bad experience and hope some resolution can be provided. The link below should take you to the TTT page and you can file the complaint directly to the airport.
https://contact.tsa.dhs.gov/talktotsa/talktotsa.aspx
https://contact.tsa.dhs.gov/talktotsa/talktotsa.aspx
The comment regarding the airline not wanting 'someone like [me]' on the plane was not called for.
Yeah, airlines hate business travelers.
Apr 21, 2011, 4:59 pm
#6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
You didn't hassle me, so an apology isn't necessary. The only issue I have with this is that the frisk and threat about contacting the airline was clearly in retaliation for having gotten in line to approach TDC by reading the very large, clear signage rather than waiting for assistance.
The comment regarding the airline not wanting 'someone like [me]' on the plane was not called for.
Yeah, airlines hate business travelers.
The comment regarding the airline not wanting 'someone like [me]' on the plane was not called for.
Yeah, airlines hate business travelers.
Seriously, please file the complaint, this is what should be reported on a regular basis!
Last edited by gsoltso; Apr 21, 2011 at 5:00 pm Reason: re-emphasize the complaint request.
Apr 21, 2011, 5:08 pm
#7
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
Here's the story as it happened not 30 minutes ago.
I arrived at DEN and went up to the checkpoint. I read the giant signs at the entrance to the cattle chutes and picked the appropriate line for my travel (premier access), but declined to show the non-TSA woman my mobile boarding pass.
She got really angry about it and apparently told another non-TSA person. Then she went and found a two-striper and got him involved. By this time I was already past the TDC, who had looked at my passport and my QR code had been scanned. He insisted he wanted to see my mobile, and I asked why that was necessary when I had just, in full sight of him, had the BP and ID checked by TDC. He asked me to 'Step over here.' and I refused. So he said he was going to get law enforcement. On his way to them, he tells the WTMD screener about me, and makes sure to clearly point me out.
Cop comes over, insists I show BP to the two-striper, so I hold it up about 2 feet away and say 'see?' Two-striper then decides he also needs my ID. I hold up the passport, and he glances at it briefly. I put it in my pocket. He decides to lecture me about how important his job is, so I tell him that I find itto be a joke and that it's nothing more than a make work program. Cop suggests to two-striper that he might want to get my name and find out what airline I'm flying. Two-striper demands ID again, and then says he will check and see if the airline wants 'someone like [me]' on the plane. I tell him that his threats are nit appreciated. He and the cop walk away.
I put my things through the x-ray, go through the WTMD and do not alarm. Blueshirt tells me I have to go in the glass holding pen. Time fir my retaliation frisk. Two female Blueshirts grab my things and I am directed to the secondary area where another woman is being hassled over a bottled water. Blueshirt puts new gloves on, out of the box, and I insist they be tested before she touches me. She does and then starts the 'sensitie areas' speil. I insist that she use anatomical terms, and she says she's going to touch breasts, buttocks and groin. She did a collar and waistband hands-in-the-clothes search, and did make contact with the labia.
During the time that she was doing this, someone (pax) asked why I was there. I said this is retaliation for not showing my BP to a non TSA person, and the male Blueshirt who was standing there to watch my grope gave me a dirty look. The ETD was negative, and the female blue shirt said to the male who was watching 'She's clear, what else can I do?'
The male Blueshirt shrugged, so I got my stuff and headed gateward. So far, no one has approached me, and no Blueshirts followed me on the train. We shall see about their threat to contact the airline.
I arrived at DEN and went up to the checkpoint. I read the giant signs at the entrance to the cattle chutes and picked the appropriate line for my travel (premier access), but declined to show the non-TSA woman my mobile boarding pass.
She got really angry about it and apparently told another non-TSA person. Then she went and found a two-striper and got him involved. By this time I was already past the TDC, who had looked at my passport and my QR code had been scanned. He insisted he wanted to see my mobile, and I asked why that was necessary when I had just, in full sight of him, had the BP and ID checked by TDC. He asked me to 'Step over here.' and I refused. So he said he was going to get law enforcement. On his way to them, he tells the WTMD screener about me, and makes sure to clearly point me out.
Cop comes over, insists I show BP to the two-striper, so I hold it up about 2 feet away and say 'see?' Two-striper then decides he also needs my ID. I hold up the passport, and he glances at it briefly. I put it in my pocket. He decides to lecture me about how important his job is, so I tell him that I find itto be a joke and that it's nothing more than a make work program. Cop suggests to two-striper that he might want to get my name and find out what airline I'm flying. Two-striper demands ID again, and then says he will check and see if the airline wants 'someone like [me]' on the plane. I tell him that his threats are nit appreciated. He and the cop walk away.
I put my things through the x-ray, go through the WTMD and do not alarm. Blueshirt tells me I have to go in the glass holding pen. Time fir my retaliation frisk. Two female Blueshirts grab my things and I am directed to the secondary area where another woman is being hassled over a bottled water. Blueshirt puts new gloves on, out of the box, and I insist they be tested before she touches me. She does and then starts the 'sensitie areas' speil. I insist that she use anatomical terms, and she says she's going to touch breasts, buttocks and groin. She did a collar and waistband hands-in-the-clothes search, and did make contact with the labia.
During the time that she was doing this, someone (pax) asked why I was there. I said this is retaliation for not showing my BP to a non TSA person, and the male Blueshirt who was standing there to watch my grope gave me a dirty look. The ETD was negative, and the female blue shirt said to the male who was watching 'She's clear, what else can I do?'
The male Blueshirt shrugged, so I got my stuff and headed gateward. So far, no one has approached me, and no Blueshirts followed me on the train. We shall see about their threat to contact the airline.
I'll most likely be flames for saying so, but you should accept responsibility for your own action. I am NOT talking about the pat down your received from TSA. What I am talking about is you most likely violated your contract with the airline when you refused to show the airline employee (most likely a contract employee) your BP to confirm that you can use the specific lane that the AIRLINE (not TSA) pays rent for.
To put simply, the airline has a right to check the BP they issue and to control who has access to the lines they control leading to the checkpoint.
It is always argued here on this site that TSA basically needs to keep out if the contract that an individual makes with an airline. Well, shouldn't the argument also be that individuals and airlines need to uphold the contracts they make with each other? Im more than sure if you look over the terms of Carriage, you will see that you are required to present you BP to airline employees and their representatives when asked. I could be wrong, but would be more than surprised if it wasn't there.
And if you had violated the contract by refusing to show your BP, I believe the airline would be justified in kicking you off the flight. Though I highly doubt that would happen - nor am I saying it should happen.
Just a thought
And you should file a complaint about the TSA employees.
Apr 21, 2011, 5:16 pm
#8
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 54
Go ahead and file the complaint, as gsoltso suggests, but I doubt it will get you anywhere. If I were the management and reviewed the surveillance video, I would judge that both of you (including the TSA person) were behaving badly. Luckily for you, the TSA person is bound by rules to act professional. On the other hand, you just gave us frequent fliers a bad name because you didn't want to show your boarding pass. Thanks a lot.
The notable irony here is that you chose to cop an attitude stemming from enforcement of things that are near and dear to most regular contributors of FlyerTalk; that being elite access. Shoe on the other foot -- how would you feel if non-elite passengers started infesting the waters that us frequent fliers earn the right to swim in? How do we know the people who earn the privileges are really the ones who are in there?
The TSA makes my blood boil in general, but the theatrics that you pulled off actually make me root for the TSA in this case.
The notable irony here is that you chose to cop an attitude stemming from enforcement of things that are near and dear to most regular contributors of FlyerTalk; that being elite access. Shoe on the other foot -- how would you feel if non-elite passengers started infesting the waters that us frequent fliers earn the right to swim in? How do we know the people who earn the privileges are really the ones who are in there?
The TSA makes my blood boil in general, but the theatrics that you pulled off actually make me root for the TSA in this case.
Apr 21, 2011, 5:20 pm
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 16,044
Why then did TSA employees get involved in a non-TSA situation?
Apr 21, 2011, 5:21 pm
#10
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 502
Go ahead and file the complaint, as gsoltso suggests, but I doubt it will get you anywhere. If I were the management and reviewed the surveillance video, I would judge that both of you (including the TSA person) were behaving badly. Luckily for you, the TSA person is bound by rules to act professional. On the other hand, you just gave us frequent fliers a bad name because you didn't want to show your boarding pass. Thanks a lot.
The notable irony here is that you chose to cop an attitude stemming from enforcement of things that are near and dear to most regular contributors of FlyerTalk; that being elite access. Shoe on the other foot -- how would you feel if non-elite passengers started infesting the waters that us frequent fliers earn the right to swim in? How do we know the people who earn the privileges are really the ones who are in there?
The TSA makes my blood boil in general, but the theatrics that you pulled off actually make me root for the TSA in this case.
The notable irony here is that you chose to cop an attitude stemming from enforcement of things that are near and dear to most regular contributors of FlyerTalk; that being elite access. Shoe on the other foot -- how would you feel if non-elite passengers started infesting the waters that us frequent fliers earn the right to swim in? How do we know the people who earn the privileges are really the ones who are in there?
The TSA makes my blood boil in general, but the theatrics that you pulled off actually make me root for the TSA in this case.
1+
Apr 21, 2011, 5:34 pm
#11
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 414
Everyone has their battles that they chose to fight in life. The OP's is not showing a BP for no reason. Mine is not showing a receipt for something that I have just paid for.
Apr 21, 2011, 5:52 pm
#12
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PHX
Programs: UA *Alliance
Posts: 5,610
The notable irony here is that you chose to cop an attitude stemming from enforcement of things that are near and dear to most regular contributors of FlyerTalk; that being elite access. Shoe on the other foot -- how would you feel if non-elite passengers started infesting the waters that us frequent fliers earn the right to swim in? How do we know the people who earn the privileges are really the ones who are in there?
Apr 21, 2011, 5:54 pm
#13
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: Sky Miles, Star Alliance, Marriott
Posts: 328
I read the signs and got in line, which caused her to want me to exit the line so she could check whether I belonged in it. I didn't wait for her to get un-busy with the people who approached her before me.
It was a case of a sign clearly indicating which line to get in, me reading that sign, getting in line, and then finding no need toexit the line to find out what I already knew.
It was a case of a sign clearly indicating which line to get in, me reading that sign, getting in line, and then finding no need toexit the line to find out what I already knew.
Apr 21, 2011, 5:59 pm
#15
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: BOS and vicinity
Programs: Former UA 1P
Posts: 3,725
It is always argued here on this site that TSA basically needs to keep out if the contract that an individual makes with an airline. Well, shouldn't the argument also be that individuals and airlines need to uphold the contracts they make with each other? Im more than sure if you look over the terms of Carriage, you will see that you are required to present you BP to airline employees and their representatives when asked.
Why did TSA get involved at all? If the airline contractor had a beef, he could have have denied the OP passage in that line or directly called law enforcement for that matter. But I don't see why TSA should have *any* role here.