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-   -   Pocket radiation meter in backscatter scanner? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1190817-pocket-radiation-meter-backscatter-scanner.html)

horseflesh Mar 4, 2011 12:57 pm

Pocket radiation meter in backscatter scanner?
 
There are a bunch of small, relatively inexpensive radiation meters available. Here's a site that reviews one that costs about $150. It's the Radex 1706.

http://www.pocketmagic.net/?p=1200

According to the specs it is sensitive to X-rays of X-ray 30KeV to 3.0MeV. This article lists the average energy of the Rapiscan at 30 kEV. So... if you had the meter in your pocket when you went in the box, it ought to show you some kind of reading.

The value of a single reading, or indeed many readings from such cheap instruments, is unclear to me. But I'm curious to know if there is any way we can independently assess the true radiation hazard of the backscatter scanners. The tools to do so are certainly dropping in price, though they obviously aren't pro quality.

I'd also be curious how many flavors of pain the TSA would give you when they spotted the gadget on the scan and then learned what it was.

Also, I just like gadgets. :)

ElizabethConley Mar 4, 2011 1:51 pm

They're going to spot it, and they're going to confiscate it. (Legally or not, I can't say with confidence.) That is, unless they don't know what it is.

If it can be passed of as some other type of device, you might pull it off.

If I worked for the TSA, I'd have already independently tested it myself, but I don't think the typical smurf would.

goalie Mar 4, 2011 1:56 pm


Originally Posted by ElizabethConley (Post 15975973)
They're going to spot it, and they're going to confiscate it. (Legally or not, I can't say with confidence.) That is, unless they don't know what it is.

If it can be passed of as some other type of device, you might pull it off.

If I worked for the TSA, I'd have already independently tested it myself, but I don't think the typical smurf would.

Yes it would be spotted by the machine it but why would the TSA confiscate have you surrender it? It's not a weapon, incendiary or explosive and it is not on the permitted/prohibited items list? (plus, I cannot conceive that "screener discretion" :rolleyes: comes into play here either as any LEO [called over by the pax] worth their salt would tell the TSO to return it to the pax)

Caradoc Mar 4, 2011 2:13 pm


Originally Posted by goalie (Post 15976000)
It's not a weapon, incendiary or explosive and it is not on the permitted/prohibited items list? (plus, I cannot conceive that "screener discretion" :rolleyes: comes into play here either as any LEO [called over by the pax] worth their salt would tell the TSO to return it to the pax)

LEOs worth their salt appear to be rare commodities in areas infested with smurfs.

celticwhisper Mar 4, 2011 2:18 pm

What about using something like this: http://www.amazon.com/RADTriage-2-0-.../dp/B002PIR1I4

No way can that be mistaken for a bomb or weapon and it should be relatively easy to read (they say to look at it under fluorescent light...do they mean UV/blacklight or will ceiling-tube/CFL fluorescents do the trick?)

Also, you could slip it into a credit-card pouch, between other cards to hide it, and act like you just forgot the pouch in your pocket after you took your wallet out. Once they detect it in the scan, the card will already have picked up the radiation.

Of course, the major downside is that once you know how much radiation you've sucked up, it's too late. The upside is that TSOs are, in all likelihood, sucking up way more than that from standing next to the Chertoffomizers all day.

yknot Mar 4, 2011 2:32 pm


Originally Posted by celticwhisper (Post 15976130)
What about using something like this: http://www.amazon.com/RADTriage-2-0-.../dp/B002PIR1I4


Wear it on a lanyard like ID around your neck and refuse to remove it when being scanned.

divemistressofthedark Mar 4, 2011 2:53 pm

I think that is a GREAT idea.

Only thing is, as you say - it would require one to enter the radiation zone to get a result. I'll definitely be ordering one before my next trip to the UK, so I can use it there if required to enter (no opt out there).

Polar Man Mar 4, 2011 3:00 pm

I dont know maybe you could claim the items as medical devices. I would like to get one makes a lot of noise when exposed to radiation above the background levles.

horseflesh Mar 4, 2011 6:48 pm

Actually most of the pocket meters I have looked at have audible alarm settings!

That card is cool, but the lowest setting on it is 2 rads, which is quite high. If the backscatter boxes are putting out 2 rads... well, that would be bad news!

This page lists the rad equivalent of some medical imaging.

http://www.babyzone.com/askanexpert/...x-ray-exposure

A chest X-ray is about 1/100 rad and I would expect the backscatter boxes to be somewhere within an order of magnitude of that value--too small to show up on that card even over many zaps.

Cartoon Peril Mar 4, 2011 6:56 pm

Do this if you are prepared to be arrested, which is is what will happen whether or not this is a crime.

doober Mar 4, 2011 7:19 pm


Originally Posted by Polar Man (Post 15976391)
I dont know maybe you could claim the items as medical devices. I would like to get one makes a lot of noise when exposed to radiation above the background levles.

My suggestion also.

Combat Medic Mar 4, 2011 8:19 pm


Originally Posted by Cartoon Peril (Post 15977452)
Do this if you are prepared to be arrested, which is is what will happen whether or not this is a crime.

What charge would you be expecting?

dmw650 Mar 4, 2011 9:53 pm

Haven't these scanners been tested already? Would you expect the actual emissions to be different than the specs?

Without repeating the text. Here is a wikipedia article that describes the effects.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backscatter_X-ray

mgchan Mar 4, 2011 11:54 pm

I do not know what the laws are regarding wearing a radiation badge in the scanner. I suspect that TSA would use the excuse that it could be hiding something (same reason they make you empty your pockets of anything, not just metal). By definition the device would need to absorb some energy and thus could obscure something behind it.

I suppose it would take quite a bit of lobbying for TSA to certify some type of device, likely similar to those that are given to parents who need to hold their children for x-rays. From an individual's standpoint, it's probably just as accurate to simply find out what the radiation dose was for the examination (it should be recorded by the machine) and recording the cumulative dose. A colleague of mine helped develop an interesting iPhone app called Radiation Passport that will calculate your increased risk for cancer, cumulative radiation, etc. based on a number of activities including airport scans and medical imaging.

Personally, I always opt out for the pat down. I am a radiologist and am exposed to quite high levels of radiation, though we take every precaution to limit our exposure with shielding and distance. Though I agree that the exposure to any one person is probably negligible except for the most frequent flyers (particularly given that each pass through precedes a flight that likely results in more radiation), the fact that TSA continues to use metal detectors indicates to me that there isn't enough of an advantage.

On principle alone, I cannot agree with going through a screening exam that results in radiation exposure when an apparently equally good exam is available that does not use ionizing radiation. I would actually be more willing to go through the backscatter scanner if TSA stopped using metal detectors completely and told me they were inadequate, because the safety of using a superior screening examination would be worth a few micrograys of radiation.

celticwhisper Mar 5, 2011 8:14 am


Originally Posted by Cartoon Peril (Post 15977452)
Do this if you are prepared to be arrested, which is is what will happen whether or not this is a crime.

Are you talking about the electronic dosimeter or the card? Because I would think the card could be used perfectly clandestinely - slip it between other cards, "forget" it in your pocket, don't look at it until after you're done with the gestapo. Post the readout on the internet ASAP and instruct readers to spread it far and wide, making sure to post it on websites hosted in lots of different countries so it can never be taken down.

Aside: Gestapo. GeSTApo. ...can we put in for special dispensation from the linguists at Oxford to allow for spelling it "geTSApo" until this whole mess is over?


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