Bogwoppit

A week ago we checked in for our flight to MCO from YUL. Me a 45 yr old woman, my two girls age 14 and 11. When teens boarding card popped out I immediately saw the ssss and thought crap, teen knows all about opting out etc as we have discussed the possibility of being scanned in the US. Little did we know it would happen on home turf, so to speak.

I asked her what she wanted to do, she said "I don't want a stranger to see me naked when I can't even see whether they are a man or a woman". When we arrived at sercurity they sent us all to the scanner line, no optioon for us to dump the teen and go the other way. We passed through the metal detector no alarms, then I told the agent that we would be opting out of the scanner.

THere was a young lady to do the grope, I asked her to change her gloves, she said she just had, I said I want to see you do it. She began to search my teen after changing her gloves. During this a male agent stood by and began asking me questions, why we were opting out etc. I told him that is was our right and that no stranger was going to see my kids naked if they didn't want to be seen. He muttered a bit more, but walked off when he realised I didn't care to respond any further.

11 year old was given the once over and then it was my turn, I found the whole process to be hilarious, why I have no idea. But to be felt up by this young girl in public with the whole world looking on was just so surreal. We held up the area big time, no one else was opting out, but families with babies had to wait for us to be done before their babies could be groped as they couldn't be scanned.

We picked up our bags etc, though I did asked them to be kept in view at all times, and they were. The agents were all very nonplussed and acted as though opt outs were rare. The scanner was a MMW type in case anyone cares. THere was a large sign right in front of the scanner advising that a pat down could be had instead of using the scanner,

Funnily enough when we got to the hotel in MCO I found youngest had a pair of scissors in her carry on bag, totally missed by the xray machine, but at least the agent got to touch her underwear! This type of security is pathetic.

Boggie Dog

From TSA.Gov:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...ted-items.shtm

are allowed in both carry on and checked luggage.

exbayern

I believe that CATSA now permits scissors. (They didn't allow short tipped pointed ones until recently, even though TSA did, and someone here confirmed that the CATSA website needed to be updated to reflect the 'new' rules which were relaxed)

Any time I have been selected and chosen not to be scanned in Canada I have had a perfectly unremarkable experience. At least the selection IS random, and for the most part the response is neutral. Once or twice it has even been positive when I indicated that I have certain physical issues.

I have NEVER had anyone touch my underwear in Canada. Frankly, I wouldn't even call my physical pat downs there 'groping'.

There was a thread here recently about YUL and screening which indicates that YUL may not be the 'norm' for Canada. But even then, I have not had any bad experiences at YUL either.

Bogwoppit

The hand in the waistband of the pants was the underwear touching reference, all of us got that treatment. Hands all around the breasts too.

Thanks for the update on the scissors etc, that is useful info.

a_random_guy

Of course, 4" scissors are just as dangerous as a 4" knife (since it would be easy enough to sharpen them the same way). Security theater at its best.

exbayern

OP, indications are that valid complaints to CATSA receive follow up and investigation.

If you truly believe that CATSA deviated from their procedures, I encourage you to write or call in a complaint. (Remember, however, that small scissors are permitted, and their website does reflect that)

From what I understand, 'hands in underwear' is not part of the general screening in Canadian airports. If there really were hands in your daughter's underwear, then I encourage you to voice your concerns.

A back of the hand pat down around the breasts has been common for years.

I honestly don't see in your post where CATSA did anything wrong. They gave you a choice, they had signage posted, they permitted your scissors, they didn't respond aggressively to your comments, and they did a pat down.

Again, if that pat down included things such as hands in underwear beyond the waistband, then I encourage you to complain. That is the only thing I read from your post which concerns me, and even then it isn't clear to me what actually happened with that.

Boggie Dog

I totally agree with you.

I wonder why I can't carry my little 3 blade Old Timer. When closed it's right at 2 3/4" long so the longest blade works out to be around 2" to the hinge pin.

A really big threat!

Bogwoppit

I didn't say they did anything "wrong", I stated what they did. The hands were inside the waist bands of their jeans, not underwear, but as one covers the other, the underwear were touched.

I am writing to share my experiences so other parents will know what to expect when they travel with their children and are randomly selected for the scanner or pat down. The intent is to educate. The experience was not enjoyable for the kids and I think forewarned is better.

I think they followed the rules, as far as I know. I did not like the male officer repeatedly questioning me as to why I opted my kids and myself out, but I was more than able to deal with him and he want off to watch from afar.

Once more my intent is to share the experience for other parents, I assume that is okay here?

ElizabethConley

Thanks.

As a parent of a 12 year old son and a 14 year old daughter, I am thankful for your report.

We hope scope n' grope is shut down before we have to travel again, but all bets are off.

Thanks for telling us what to expect.

nachtnebel

I appreciate the info. It sounds like nobody's junk got touched, so it wasn't as invasive as it could have been. I can imagine you were concerned until that part was over. Good for you for opting out.

exbayern

That was how I read it too - remove the part about the scissors and it sounds like the experience was unremarkable. And that sounds about par for the course with CATSA based on past reports here. I think that OP was trying to convey that in the follow up posts, but I may be wrong. I have posted a few 'unremarkable' experiences here myself when opting out at TSA checkpoints.

In this case I think that the SSSS was all members of the party due to being on the same PNR? Normally what I see with CATSA is if one member of a family gets selected on the mat and it is a minor, the agent offers a parent to get the extra screening instead of the child. I don't think that really qualifies as random anymore, but I would think that most parents appreciate the option.

When it is a single parent and child, the parent seems to get the extra screening but not the child. Again, both scenarios I have witnessed several times are for being randomly selected on the mat, not for SSSS.

gojirasan

I'm still confused. So CATSA *does* get into your pants then? That sounds pretty similar to the TSA. I didn't think they did the waistband thing. I'm still considering taking a bus to YUL from Boston for my next trip to avoid the TSA and a possible double-opt-out experience on my part (because I would not consent to the scope or the grope--no exceptions), but this gives me pause. I would flat out refuse the waistband search or even push their hands away if they started it without asking me. I hate doing things like that in foreign countries though even if it is just Canada. I tend to submit to pretty much anything when on foreign soil based on being a guest and the "when in rome" thing. But in this case I would resist. I guess even as a non-citizen I would probably have more rights in Canada than I do here in the US. And surely Canadian prisons must be better than the ones here.

SurlyJoe

CATSA most certainly "got into my pants" on my last trip through YYZ a couple of weeks ago. I alarmed the WTMD (belt?) and the CATSA guy wanded me. He made me undo my belt, and stuck his fingers in my waistband. He also didn't mention that he was going to do this until I gave him a dirty look. If looks could kill, I probably would have been incarcerated on the spot.

Cartoon Peril

My kids are 14 and 15, and I sure don't want the government's hands on them, or some perv in a box looking at them naked. I am not at all sure what to do, as they will have to fly sometime. Or take the train. Same risk it appears.

RATM

I'm highly encouraged that she is smart enough to understand the situation, and that she was informed enough to make the best decision.

I'm highly depressed at the thought of so many 14 year old girls having to face such a decision because of the United States of America.