Touching face and hair -- what is point?

Old Feb 11, 11, 8:41 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by layz View Post
Yeah, they put the fares up every year to try and price terrorists off the system
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Old Feb 11, 11, 8:58 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF View Post
The very clear difference is that a terrorist is making a concerted effort to harm me.
No they aren't. They are making a concerted effort to terrorize you.

Guess what?

They have completely succeeded.

And the efforts on their part have been exceptionally minimal. Get a few disenfranchised rubes to try to ignite a shoe or pantie bomb and - voila! - we are terrorized down to the ground, wetting our pants and begging the TSA and any other airport security to fondle the crotch of 80-year-old grandmas in wheelchairs in order to give us a sense of security.
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Old Feb 11, 11, 9:08 pm
  #33  
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[QUOTE=LHR/MEL/Europe FF;15848694]The OP talked about stroking hair (etc) and
numerous accounts of stroking faces. I would like to read those and see under what circumstances the events took place. I would like to ascertain the valididty of the claims.
http://pncminnesota.wordpress.com/20...nced-pat-down/ is link to a well-publicized account of a woman from Minnesota who was search by a male, this involved face-stroking.

In the comments to that article, I found:
"I was just at the Las Vegas airport last weekend and witnessed a woman, in a crowded security area, having her breasts separated and cupped, her shirt lifted, her waistband pulled aside, her hair combed through, her face touched, etc."

http://sherbailey.com/2010/12/12/the...swimsuit-area/ describes a search which included, among other things:

"She lifted my hair, and ran her hands along the back of my neck."

http://runningsister.blogspot.com/ describes her experiences as a cancer patient in the hands of TSA. In addition to all the usual TSA barbarism, the passenger reports:

"she moved her gloved hands all over my body, from my neck down to my ankles."
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Old Feb 11, 11, 10:30 pm
  #34  
 
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This whole thread is giving me the creeping willies. Like, maybe the worst yet.
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Old Feb 11, 11, 10:38 pm
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I might get one of these.

Last edited by InkUnderNails; Feb 11, 11 at 11:18 pm
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Old Feb 11, 11, 10:54 pm
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by Cartoon Peril View Post
I have read numerous accounts that TSOs feel they have to stroke or touch:
1. The passenger's face;
2. The passenger's hair;
3. Around the passenger's collar.

What is the point of this? It seems unnecessary to me, and in some ways, rather offensive.
I can tell you exactly why they do it.

Because these are places prison inmates commonly hide narcotics and other contraband, and the "experts" at TSA are using that law enforcement model to define what constitutes a "proper" pat down.
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Old Feb 11, 11, 11:03 pm
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by Mabuk dan gila View Post
I can tell you exactly why they do it.

Because these are places prison inmates commonly hide narcotics and other contraband, and the "experts" at TSA are using that law enforcement model to define what constitutes a "proper" pat down.
Huh. Thanks for the info. Not being an ex-con, or a current con, or a prison guard, did not know that.

"We are all just prisoners here, of our own device".
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Old Feb 11, 11, 11:07 pm
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Sky auditor View Post
Pistole's Perverts do this to condition you to accepting invasive touching without question. It makes future escalation easier.
In other words, the perverts are grooming you.
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Old Feb 11, 11, 11:10 pm
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by Mabuk dan gila View Post
I can tell you exactly why they do it.

Because these are places prison inmates commonly hide narcotics and other contraband, and the "experts" at TSA are using that law enforcement model to define what constitutes a "proper" pat down.
Which is a very sad commentary: the TSA sees every single American as not needing better treatment than inmates, because, you know, we are all potential terrorists or Al Qaeda operatives.

That being said, remember to never paint the TSOs, BDOs, and TDCs with a broad brush because that would be wrong.

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Old Feb 11, 11, 11:19 pm
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Mabuk dan gila View Post
I can tell you exactly why they do it.

Because these are places prison inmates commonly hide narcotics and other contraband, and the "experts" at TSA are using that law enforcement model to define what constitutes a "proper" pat down.
yes - I can understand face now too, I guess it would pick up if you were holding something inside your mouth.

Sorry to mislead other posters here. I am not in the slightest bit 'terrorised' or in any other way afraid by terrorists. I am pleasantly calm and collected, and take airport security in my stride. There are, to me, more important things to get worked up about.

I am aware however that when i board a plane certain security measures have been taken, I can understand why they have been taken, and i feel a bit safer.

Thanks cartoon peril for the links. a few of those state the neck was touched, not the face. That is the reason i wanted to have the sources so i could see if it was 'face stroking' or something quite different.

I am not in any way condoning illegal activity by the TSA. If that occurs then it should be punished appropriately. But standard checks, which for example are conducted in prisons to check for contraband, or are conducted by customs officials for contraband, or have been conducted by security at Amsterdam for decades (etc etc) do not stike me as extraordinary.
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Old Feb 11, 11, 11:37 pm
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF View Post
I am not in the slightest bit 'terrorised' or in any other way afraid by terrorists.
Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF View Post
No 'intimacy issue' is worth an explosive decompression at 35,000 feet, or death.
Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF View Post
We don't know when the first incident will happen.
Really...


Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF View Post
But standard checks, which for example are conducted in prisons to check for contraband,
Hey, if you like being treated like a prisoner....


Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF View Post
or are conducted by customs officials for contraband,
... acting on some sort of suspicion.


Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF View Post
or have been conducted by security at Amsterdam for decades (etc etc) do not stike me as extraordinary.
I have been to Amsterdam twice - I wasn't searched or detained by anybody. You're going to need to expand on this.
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Old Feb 12, 11, 12:00 am
  #42  
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF View Post
yes - I can understand face now too, I guess it would pick up if you were holding something inside your mouth.
1. In my work I have been admitted to a wide variety of secured premises, and been searched via WTMD and hand wand on numerous occasions, both by state and federal authorities.

2. I have never been asked to have my mouth inspected, nor have I ever observed or heard of this done on any other person passing through security.

3. I am not sure of the extent of the facial touch in the TSA regime. Certainly there have been reports of this, including on this thread. Since TSA will not say what their search includes, one must conclude that this is a possible part of any TSA search.

4. The intrusiveness of the facial touching is significant. Very few people will tolerate a stranger touching them on their face. This bears upon the lawfulness (or lack thereof) of these types of physical contacts.
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Old Feb 12, 11, 12:05 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by sirdatary View Post
I have been to Amsterdam twice - I wasn't searched or detained by anybody. You're going to need to expand on this.
Indeed, we've transited through AMS dozens of times & have yet to receive neck massages. Have we been shorted?
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Old Feb 12, 11, 12:31 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF View Post
yes - I can understand face now too, I guess it would pick up if you were holding something inside your mouth.
You could easily hide a detonator inside your mouth, under your tongue and wedged next to your gum line.

(You can see what I mean by watching this video. Go to the 2:00 mark and watch while he pulls the small detonator from his mouth.)

Someone stroking your face would never be able to detect the detonator under your tongue.
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Old Feb 12, 11, 3:35 am
  #45  
 
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1. Touching is a very poor technique to detect bombs. First, unless full cavity searches are conducted, it will miss stuff. Second, it does not differentiate dangerous items from other items. ETD is the way to go.

2. Touching heads, bare skin and, particularly for me, "checking waistbands" (i.e. hands in pants) are the most disturbing parts of these pat downs. Undoubtedly designed as a show of power.
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