Touching face and hair -- what is point?
Feb 17, 2011, 2:16 pm
#181
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: PDX
Programs: TSA Refusenik charter member
Posts: 15,978
It's the Stanford Prison experiment being played out in every airport in the nation.
Either way, it's all sick.
Feb 17, 2011, 2:33 pm
#182
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
I asked a TSA agent about the inconsistency from airport to airport and he said, "We do that on purpose. We don't want to be predictable to the criminals." So in their minds, they are doing it just fine.
It's the Stanford Prison experiment being played out in every airport in the nation. And, like sheep we acquiesce. Why? Because we - in that moment - have more important things to do... like board a plane. And we fear being put on a no-fly list. And they know that.
It's the Stanford Prison experiment being played out in every airport in the nation. And, like sheep we acquiesce. Why? Because we - in that moment - have more important things to do... like board a plane. And we fear being put on a no-fly list. And they know that.
Feb 17, 2011, 2:37 pm
#183
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SFO or JFK or DCA or HKG
Posts: 22
(That sound you hear is Jefferson and Madison spinning in their graves.)
Welcome to Smurf Village, where inconsistent application of the law is a means to confound supervillains, apparently.
Feb 17, 2011, 2:48 pm
#184
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 453
I am comfortable with it for one unfair reason, I know the protocols. I also know that if my daughter were to have something untowards done during screening, I would raise Cain. I understand what you are saying, and I agree that things like the patdown could be made public (I have done so for a while now). I do not make those decisions, nor do I have all of the information on why that information is SSI.
Last edited by Lara21; Feb 17, 2011 at 3:40 pm
Feb 17, 2011, 3:18 pm
#185
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 331
I am comfortable with it for one unfair reason, I know the protocols. I also know that if my daughter were to have something untowards done during screening, I would raise Cain. I understand what you are saying, and I agree that things like the patdown could be made public (I have done so for a while now). I do not make those decisions, nor do I have all of the information on why that information is SSI.
Last edited by Mimi111; Feb 17, 2011 at 4:13 pm
Feb 17, 2011, 4:11 pm
#186
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
I would follow the procedure up until I got satisfaction, without fail.
That is a frustration of mine as well. There are exceptions due to a laundry list of reasons, and I disagree with exceptions. The only exceptions should be ones made for necessity, such as using alternate screening methods that provide the same level of screening. I have said many times that I do not have a problem with screening when entering the sterile area (as well as screening all people that enter the sterile area), but I seem to be in a minority.
Feb 17, 2011, 4:16 pm
#187
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
Even though you know the correct protocols and I believe you treat the passengers with respect the same way you want your daughter treated with respect, doesn't mean every TSA Agent is following those protocols and if one of them was to do something to your daughter during a patdown. You raising cain would not turn back the clock and undo the damage done to her because of all this secrecy that TSA/DHS is insisting on when it comes to the patdowns. Because at one airport the patdown given to the passengers may be no big deal. At another airport that patdown maybe the passenger's worst nightmare. Particularly when they are allowing the TSA Agents to interpret the secret rules and apply them as they see fit at different airports.
Again, I hate the inconsistency, it has been my biggest frustration since coming here. I understand your frustration.
Feb 17, 2011, 4:38 pm
#188
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 16,028
Feb 17, 2011, 4:43 pm
#189
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,145
I am comfortable with it for one unfair reason, I know the protocols. I also know that if my daughter were to have something untowards done during screening, I would raise Cain. I understand what you are saying, and I agree that things like the patdown could be made public (I have done so for a while now). I do not make those decisions, nor do I have all of the information on why that information is SSI.
Feb 17, 2011, 5:01 pm
#190
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
Already on record as hating that phrase, throwing stones at someone that agrees is not a good path to walk. (Now, if ths was a jest and I completely missed it, please accept my apologies. If not, please reread the original comment again)
Feb 17, 2011, 5:07 pm
#191
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 16,028
Here is the problem, there is evidence of people being arrested at the checkpoint and they were not 'raise cain'
Feb 17, 2011, 5:13 pm
#192
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
Again back to the problem that 'all passengers' are not allowed to know the limits. How can you complaints be effective if we aren't allowed to know what is allowed and not allowed.
Here is the problem, there is evidence of people being arrested at the checkpoint and they were not 'raise cain'
Here is the problem, there is evidence of people being arrested at the checkpoint and they were not 'raise cain'
I disagree with wrongful arrests in any form, the checkpoint is no exception. Most likely I would be raising Cain afterwards, but I would still do so to the best of my ability.
Feb 17, 2011, 5:19 pm
#193
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 16,028
Sorry, if that were true, it would have already happened and Bob wouldn't be posting
"Like we've said before, we respect the privacy of passengers, but security comes first."
Last edited by Tom M.; Feb 17, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Feb 17, 2011, 5:40 pm
#194
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 270
Gsoltso,
Unfortunately, for each common sense post you put out, you have co-workers baiting and demeaning the travelling public.
I don't even have to name the author of these, any regular visitor can recognize the tone.
Unfortunately for those "good guys" who are left in the organization, everytime one of your partners represents you like this, it further validates an ugly TSA image in most peoples' minds, and they react accordingly.
When is the TSA going to start weeding these public relation train wrecks out???
Unfortunately, for each common sense post you put out, you have co-workers baiting and demeaning the travelling public.
I don't even have to name the author of these, any regular visitor can recognize the tone.
No one can compel you to answer a question. No one. If you don’t want to answer, don’t answer. Its your decision, feel free to make it however you like. As with all things in life though, there are consequences for our actions.
All choices have consequences, the difference is that some are good consequences and some are not. Logic would state that we choose the one we wish.
Besides, shouldn’t there be a consequence for those who break the rules? There are millions of laws out there and no one knows even a small fraction of them.
Did I say that after saying “no” that you would be allowed to leave? After beginning screening? I don’t remember saying that. In any case we won’t nail you to the floor or tackle you if you do try to leave. We leave that kind of stuff to the LEO’s.
But as with everything in life there are consequences for our actions, both good and bad. Which you get depends on the decisions you make. So, when you refuse to cooperate with the screening process do not be surprised if the consequence of that decision is not something you want.
After all, there is no constitutionally guaranteed right to get on that aircraft now is there.
After all, there is no constitutionally guaranteed right to get on that aircraft now is there.
When is the TSA going to start weeding these public relation train wrecks out???
Feb 17, 2011, 6:00 pm
#195
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SYD (perenially), GVA (not in a long time)
Programs: QF PS, EK-Gold, Security Theatre Critic
Posts: 6,764
I have already agreed that it is frustrating, and that I do not agree with it. If the passengers keep filing the coplaints and load the system up, somone that has 2 or more complaints for the same thing, will come under increased scrutiny. Even if it is for the wrong reasons or the right reasons, that level of scrutiny will increase (wrong being - self preservation right being - it is simply the right thing to do to try and remove this type of behavior from the workplace). If you continue to increase that scrutiny the chance of someone getting busted outright increases and presto - one less dirtbag that sullies my name and organization. I realize this is a simple way of looking at things, but it is one way of forcing things to change.
Held for an hour, missed her flight, raised Cain (and then some), documented on video...
And Blogdad Bob says:
Originally Posted by BB
proper procedures were followed.
...We extend our sincere apologies to any passenger who may have experienced discomfort and inconvenience during the screening process. We appreciate hearing from passengers and encourage you to share your experiences with us. Although the proper screening procedures were followed at the time, we acknowledge this particular passenger experienced an out of the ordinary delay, and have worked with our officers to ensure we proceed with expediency in screening situations similar to this.
...We extend our sincere apologies to any passenger who may have experienced discomfort and inconvenience during the screening process. We appreciate hearing from passengers and encourage you to share your experiences with us. Although the proper screening procedures were followed at the time, we acknowledge this particular passenger experienced an out of the ordinary delay, and have worked with our officers to ensure we proceed with expediency in screening situations similar to this.
) she continued to have the same problems at the checkpoint for months.
On 4/22/10, after one of the final trips I took with breast milk, I emailed the Phoenix TSA customer service manager. I wanted to make sure he knew that every week since 2/1/10, I had been instructed to place the milk through x-ray and had to ask again for an alternate screening…every single time. I brought this to his attention so he knew the agents still had no knowledge or, possibly, no regard for the breast milk screening rules.
