Am I the only one?
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,110
Instead of calling it AIT call it what it really is, an Electronic Strip Search!
#17
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 855
I scan the dairy department thoroughly each time I visit the grocer, praying to spot John Pistole's face on a milk carton...
Digging deeper:
I have a catch and release policy wrt cockroaches, but if one scuttles across the kitchen floor in a smurf suit he'll never stand a chance...
hmmm:
I'm sure there's more. I'm gonna go munch a few cookies to fuel my brain.
Last edited by ElizabethConley; Feb 2, 2011 at 8:21 am
#18
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: BOS and vicinity
Programs: Former UA 1P
Posts: 3,725
But still, there have to be some others out there who share my attitude towards these procedures. Right?
Are you out there? Please tell me I'm not the only one.
Are you out there? Please tell me I'm not the only one.
There is zero chance of enhanced pat-downs causing cancer. There is nearly zero risk of any long-term injury from the pat-down that stays undetected for a period of time. Any injury caused by the pat-down is likely to cause immediate sharp pain, meaning that the screener who caused the injury can be identified and hopefully held accountable.
I think another factor for many passengers is that opting-out of the scanner is the only "power" that TSA concedes to passengers. Opting out is rejecting TSA's default actions and forcing them to do extra work. If TSA made the pat-downs primary and the scanners secondary, I think a lot of "us" would choose the scanners.
I think both the strip-search machine and enhanced retaliatory patdowns (any protocol that calls for pushing up against the genitals four times is more about retaliation than screening) applied without individualized suspicion are disgusting, un-American, and unconstitutional. But the only option that TSA gives us to assert ourselves (while still flying) is to opt out of the strip search machine.
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
I believe both the scan and the grope are serious constitutional violations. However, under no circumstances will I submit to an x-ray scan. I'm not exposing myself to ionizing radiation because it is the "lesser" constitutional violation.
#21
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 855
Which is why the pat down remains the reasonable choice, until health concerns are addressed. Revulsion at being mauled by a government thug is unpleasant, but it passes a lot faster than most cancer treatments.
#22
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,145
Although I am *totally* opposed to both the body scanners and the patdowns on a personal level, at least with the gropetastic form of screenery, it leaves one with a socialized option for responding to it immediately. (One could scream or physically recoil when touched inappropriately by a screener. That is a socialized response to having a stranger touch one's genitals in public, -- but not so much for having one's picture taken at the airport.) The other things that tip the scales are safety concerns and the possibilities of what might happen to the individual scanner images. For all of these reasons, I'll take the grope rather than the scanner.
#24
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
If human beings had been intended to perform those strip search and sex organ groping actions in the way they are performed and on the victims they perform them on (innocent travelers), blindly, slavishly, without any regard for them, and if humans had been intended to submit to such behavior, we would not have been given brains.
This is nothing other than violence. Just as the absolute power wielded by the slave owner over the slave, it is damaging to those who do these things and it is damaging to those who have these things done to them. Beyond the indignity and fundamental violation of liberty, this strip searching and sex organ groping sends so many messages to the victims about their power and your helplessness. It is destructive to a free people.
a price will be paid for this and is already being paid.
This is nothing other than violence. Just as the absolute power wielded by the slave owner over the slave, it is damaging to those who do these things and it is damaging to those who have these things done to them. Beyond the indignity and fundamental violation of liberty, this strip searching and sex organ groping sends so many messages to the victims about their power and your helplessness. It is destructive to a free people.
a price will be paid for this and is already being paid.
#25
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 855
If human beings had been intended to perform those strip search and sex organ groping actions in the way they are performed and on the victims they perform them on (innocent travelers), blindly, slavishly, without any regard for them, and if humans had been intended to submit to such behavior, we would not have been given brains.
This is nothing other than violence. Just as the absolute power wielded by the slave owner over the slave, it is damaging to those who do these things and it is damaging to those who have these things done to them. Beyond the indignity and fundamental violation of liberty, this strip searching and sex organ groping sends so many messages to the victims about their power and your helplessness. It is destructive to a free people.
a price will be paid for this and is already being paid.
This is nothing other than violence. Just as the absolute power wielded by the slave owner over the slave, it is damaging to those who do these things and it is damaging to those who have these things done to them. Beyond the indignity and fundamental violation of liberty, this strip searching and sex organ groping sends so many messages to the victims about their power and your helplessness. It is destructive to a free people.
a price will be paid for this and is already being paid.
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
... And I made up my mind some time ago, long before the enhanced pat-down, that I will NEVER willingly submit to a frisking or pat-down of any sort. If that means I can't fly, so be it. I'll drive, I'll walk, I'll stay home, but I will NOT be frisked like a common criminal, and I will certainly NOT allow any government stooge to put their hands on my privates.
Many (most?) people who pass through the Nude-O-Scope end up being groped anyway, so you'll be driving or walking soon enough (after you pay your $11,000 fine for refusing to complete the screening process).
And what happens if the grope comes up while you are a few thousand miles away from home?
The only way out for people who do not want to be molested is not to fly, period. There is no other escape unless you have lots of $11,000 bills in your wallet.
#27
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: ORD, MKE
Programs: UA, AA, Hilton and regular member of everything else
Posts: 1,332
That's my decision. As much as I like traveling, my dignity and my constitutional rights are worth more. Since money talks louder than the Constitution these days, as more frequent flyers stop flying because of this, the airlines will feel the pain and maybe something will be done about it.
#28
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: CMH
Programs: Delta Gold Medallion, United
Posts: 433
No, you're not the only one. Most people are extremely disturbed by being groped. That's why most opt for the "scope".
Words cannot capture how disturbed I am by being groped. To put it mildly, "I've got baggage." Nontheless, I have reasonable concerns about the danger the radiation poses to my health. For this reason I'll control my churning nausea and visceral fury long enough to get through the pawing - but only if I absolutely must fly.
Reason must trump emotion, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't find it easier to be scoped than groped.
Words cannot capture how disturbed I am by being groped. To put it mildly, "I've got baggage." Nontheless, I have reasonable concerns about the danger the radiation poses to my health. For this reason I'll control my churning nausea and visceral fury long enough to get through the pawing - but only if I absolutely must fly.
Reason must trump emotion, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't find it easier to be scoped than groped.
And this is why I will opt for the grope if I have to fly at all (I've cut out almost all air travel since October). I'm not getting violated twice if I can help it.
#29
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: LAX
Posts: 6,769
However, IF I have to go through either the pat down on the NoS, I choose the NoS for the reasons the OP listed. I just don't like being felt up. Fine, see my naked outline on a computer and hopefully blur my face and not see me. Anyway, I've done this many times, and every time, they haven't run me through a secondary grope, so for me at least, it's grope free.
#30
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
I am one of the many, many travellers who have no choice - we simply are physically unable to use the WBI, and the TSA seems to have overlooked this and punishes us all in the same fashion as those who have conciously chosen to opt out.
Having said that, even if I could use the WBI I would opt out as a form of protest. I have posted many links to German media re the WBI tests and how up to 75% of those using the scanners (voluntarily) still have to be physically checked. I object to the use of a costly tool which is of questionable benefit, and which is giving kickbacks to a former government official. Then there are the questions about privacy and morality, not to mention the potential health impact.
Unfortunately the recent 'bang downs' I have received often cause significant pain, which is another reality for those who cannot use the WBI.
Having said that, even if I could use the WBI I would opt out as a form of protest. I have posted many links to German media re the WBI tests and how up to 75% of those using the scanners (voluntarily) still have to be physically checked. I object to the use of a costly tool which is of questionable benefit, and which is giving kickbacks to a former government official. Then there are the questions about privacy and morality, not to mention the potential health impact.
Unfortunately the recent 'bang downs' I have received often cause significant pain, which is another reality for those who cannot use the WBI.