Life on Hold

Old Dec 27, 10, 10:39 am
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Life on Hold

The lawyers here can probably explain this better than I, and correct me where I'm wrong.

It seems to me that when people tangle legally with the TSA, life goes on hold.

Robin Kassner has been wading through the courts for years looking for justice, and appears no closer to true resolution. I wonder if she's signed a gag order, or if she's simply to exhausted to talk about it.

Phil Mocek (Hope I spelled that right) has gone over a year without a trial.

The anonymous pilot who embarrassed the TSA with his youtube video has experienced another kind of "life on hold". He's gotten veiled threats that the TSA is looking for something to charge him with and his concealed carry permit has been confiscated pending the resolution of his "court case". (That last bit really bugs me. I hope there are grounds to sue over the confiscated concealed carry permit.)

Life on hold has got to be draining. Do we have any reason to believe that any of these people will see relief in the near future? Do we have any reason to believe that some of these cases will actually go to court and be resolved within a year or so?
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Old Dec 27, 10, 10:47 am
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"Do we have any reason to believe that any of these people will see relief in the near future? Do we have any reason to believe that some of these cases will actually go to court and be resolved within a year or so?" No, we do not. That's the punishment for challenging the TSA. Are we feeling sufficiently oppressed yet?
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Old Dec 27, 10, 10:54 am
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As I recall imperfectly, there were founding fathers during the US Revolutionary War who put their business on hold, went broke, and started over. Nathan Hale gave it all by poplar accounts. From 21st Century America perspective, looking back, it was worth it.

The above folks are fighting the fight the way they can because they feel they must. If they didn't, likely TSA would have a digit so far inside they'd be scratching our tonsils via our appendix.

You may win. You may lose. You can't choose that, but you can choose to resist.
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Old Dec 27, 10, 10:58 am
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Originally Posted by reft View Post
As I recall imperfectly, there were founding fathers during the US Revolutionary War who put their business on hold, went broke, and started over. Nathan Hale gave it all by poplar accounts. From 21st Century America perspective, looking back, it was worth it.

The above folks are fighting the fight the way they can because they feel they must. If they didn't, likely TSA would have a digit so far inside they'd be scratching our tonsils via our appendix.

You may win. You may lose. You can't choose that, but you can choose to resist.
Well said. Hearty applause. <echo>Constitutional Congress pounding on desks in approbation</echo>
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Old Dec 27, 10, 11:03 am
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"The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Thomas Jefferson
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Old Dec 27, 10, 11:11 am
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Child Protective Services around the country used Americans' reasonable loathing for child abusers to get away with countless Constitutional Rights Violations. They routinely violated the rights of the accused, the rest of the members of the household and the rights of the victim.

They've been reigned in modestly in recent years by successful litigation, but people who don't know their rights and don't have money for a good lawyer still get steam-rolled.

If the TSA debacle continues for decades with such limited success, then (IMHO) nothing the tin-hat-wearing-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it folks can dream up will be as bad as reality.

Originally Posted by Princess1 View Post
"The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Thomas Jefferson
I'd rather not go there, thanks very much! That sounds too much like a rallying cry for a wave of "domestic terrorism". That response is exactly why I find the TSA's outlandish abuse of Civil Rights so dangerous. If not appropriately and promptly checked, it could lead to violence.

I'd rather brainstorm about ways to raise public awareness. It seems to me that far too many Americans have not been taught how the Constitution protects Americans from civil unrest. I think that most Americans have a vague idea that the Constitution is about "freedom". I don't think they know that the Constitution is also about safety.

Our Constitution makes it safe for a diverse population to share the same country without violence. It defines the very structure and balance of our nation. The Constitution must be preserved in order for us and our posterity to live without the constant threat of violent upheaval from within.

If most Americans knew that the Constitution assured their precious safety as well as their barely understood and usually unappreciated freedoms, they might be more concerned about Civil Rights infringements.

Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Dec 29, 10 at 11:11 am Reason: merge consecutive posts
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Old Dec 27, 10, 11:48 am
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As usual, Elizabeth +1. That Jefferson quote was a favorite of Tim McVeigh's - I believe he was wearing it on a t-shirt the day he detonated a bomb that killed 168 innocent Americans and injured hundreds more. (I've been thinking about security in light of the fact that I had occasion to visit the OKC Memorial Museum recently. How could they have caught/stopped such a lunatic? I have no idea.)

There's definitely a way to win this that doesn't involve violence. A favorite quote of mine on this type of thing is also MLK (as is that in my signature, natch)..."A man can't ride your back unless it's bent." We do have the advantage of being morally correct on this issue.
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Old Dec 27, 10, 11:53 am
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Originally Posted by ElizabethConley View Post
The lawyers here can probably explain this better than I, and correct me where I'm wrong.

It seems to me that when people tangle legally with the TSA, life goes on hold.

Robin Kassner has been wading through the courts for years looking for justice, and appears no closer to true resolution. I wonder if she's signed a gag order, or if she's simply to exhausted to talk about it.

Phil Mocek (Hope I spelled that right) has gone over a year without a trial.

The anonymous pilot who embarrassed the TSA with his youtube video has experienced another kind of "life on hold". He's gotten veiled threats that the TSA is looking for something to charge him with and his concealed carry permit has been confiscated pending the resolution of his "court case". (That last bit really bugs me. I hope there are grounds to sue over the confiscated concealed carry permit.)

Life on hold has got to be draining. Do we have any reason to believe that any of these people will see relief in the near future? Do we have any reason to believe that some of these cases will actually go to court and be resolved within a year or so?
Robin Kassner is not suing TSA.
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/vir...v00248/227733/

Update of Phillip Mocek. http://www.papersplease.org/wp/2010/...ring-thursday/

Update on Pilot. http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/whistle...2481594&page=1
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Old Dec 27, 10, 12:16 pm
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Originally Posted by shortoneisi View Post

Neither are the other two. These are cases where local authorities did the TSA's dirty work for them. That's pretty typical.

I wonder if we should be telling our local governments that we object to our local and state police forces being used in this fashion. Just a little hint to the Mayor, the Governor, the DA, the elected Sheriff and anyone else who might listen, that our local police force should be protecting us. We don't expect our local police force to provide the "muscle" for a federal agency committing crimes in their jurisdictions.
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Old Dec 27, 10, 12:34 pm
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All court cases take a long time, and it does seem that the DoJ makes no effort to make things move any faster. In this regard, I have an advantage on the others in that since I'm pro se, it costs me no more to fight for 3 months or 3 years.

That said, life goes on while in a lawsuit. I'm starting 3 new companies at the turn of the New Year, and squeeze in a couple hours a day of studying law and responding to DoJ filings.

--Jon


____________________________________
My lawsuit against the TSA:
http://tsaoutofourpants.wordpress.com/
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Old Dec 27, 10, 12:52 pm
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Originally Posted by ElizabethConley View Post
I'd rather not go there, thanks very much! That sounds too much like a rallying cry for a wave of "domestic terrorism". That response is exactly why I find the TSA's outlandish abuse of Civil Rights so dangerous. If not appropriately and promptly checked, it could lead to violence.

I'd rather brainstorm about ways to raise public awareness. It seems to me that far too many Americans have not been taught how the Constitution protects Americans from civil unrest. I think that most Americans have a vague idea that the Constitution is about "freedom". I don't think they know that the Constitution is also about safety.

Our Constitution makes it safe for a diverse population to share the same country without violence. It defines the very structure and balance of our nation. The Constitution must be preserved in order for us and our posterity to live without the constant threat of violent upheaval from within.

If most Americans knew that the Constitution assured their precious safety as well as their barely understood and usually unappreciated freedoms, they might be more concerned about Civil Rights infringements.
That all sounds good and I agree with much of it, but not all of it.

Thanks to the media, "domestic terrorism" has become the 21st Century bogeyman. If John Adams and Thomas Jefferson and Nathan Hale and John Hancock and the other heroes of the Revolution were around today, they'd easily be classified as domestic terrorists.

Lest ye forget, most of the noise about "domestic terrorism" is coming from DHS and their federally financed ilk, and we're being indoctrinated and brainwashed to the point that patriotism has almost become a dirty word.

On this issue, I agree wholeheartedly with the quote from Thomas Jefferson. We're on a dangerous path with the persistent erosion of our liberties and I can't help but wonder, where and how does this end?

Rose
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Old Dec 27, 10, 3:05 pm
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Originally Posted by RosemaryT View Post
Lest ye forget, most of the noise about "domestic terrorism" is coming from DHS and their federally financed ilk, and we're being indoctrinated and brainwashed to the point that patriotism has almost become a dirty word.
Rose

Good point. I don't like the DHS's scaremongering about "dangerous patriots". They seem to think that anyone with an ounce of gumption and brains is a threat. On the other hand, I think the DHS really believes patriots are scary people. Just to humor them, I try not to feed their paranoia with remarks that could be interpreted as a call to arms. I don't want a goon squad showing up to confiscate Grannie's garter pistol, shoot our ditsy golden retriever and destroy my bedraggled poinsettia plant.

Originally Posted by Affection View Post
All court cases take a long time, and it does seem that the DoJ makes no effort to make things move any faster. In this regard, I have an advantage on the others in that since I'm pro se, it costs me no more to fight for 3 months or 3 years.

That said, life goes on while in a lawsuit. I'm starting 3 new companies at the turn of the New Year, and squeeze in a couple hours a day of studying law and responding to DoJ filings.

--Jon



____________________________________

Very encouraging.
My lawsuit against the TSA:
http://tsaoutofourpants.wordpress.com/

Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Dec 29, 10 at 11:12 am Reason: merge consecutive posts
ElizabethConley is offline  
Old Dec 27, 10, 3:35 pm
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"We're on a dangerous path with the persistent erosion of our liberties and I can't help but wonder, where and how does this end?"


Path? They're strip searching you before you fly, examining you and your loved ones' private parts with impunity, and are planning to extend their security apparatus to your local mall, subway, bus, hotel and what have you.

I don't think we're on any path. We've arrived.
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Old Dec 27, 10, 8:47 pm
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Originally Posted by RosemaryT View Post
Thanks to the media, "domestic terrorism" has become the 21st Century bogeyman. If John Adams and Thomas Jefferson and Nathan Hale and John Hancock and the other heroes of the Revolution were around today, they'd easily be classified as domestic terrorists.
Could be a good tee-shirt: Drawings of one or all of the founding fathers with the wording "Domestic Extremist" written under. Fortunately, convenient art work exists in your wallet.
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Old Dec 27, 10, 9:04 pm
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Originally Posted by ElizabethConley View Post
Good point. I don't like the DHS's scaremongering about "dangerous patriots". They seem to think that anyone with an ounce of gumption and brains is a threat. On the other hand, I think the DHS really believes patriots are scary people. Just to humor them, I try not to feed their paranoia with remarks that could be interpreted as a call to arms. I don't want a goon squad showing up to confiscate Grannie's garter pistol, shoot our ditsy golden retriever and destroy my bedraggled poinsettia plant.
What makes you think they need an excuse to do any of that?

What kind of excuse did Mayor Calvo give?

Originally Posted by reft View Post
Could be a good tee-shirt: Drawings of one or all of the founding fathers with the wording "Domestic Extremist" written under. Fortunately, convenient art work exists in your wallet.
Just use a photo of Mount Rushmore.

Or just buy one of these.
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