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What exactly is the TSA procedure?
Does everyone have to go through the xray or receive a pat-down, or is that restricted to people who fail the metal detector or are 'randomly' selected?
My children (ages 16, 10) will be flying in a few days and I opt-out of both screening methods (both airports have BKSX). The only way I would let them fly is if they go through the metal detector. Should we even bother? |
I don't want to come across as a perv, but is the 16 year old a good looking female? We've seen reports of young women being 'randomly' picked at a disproportionate rate.
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Hi, Hilary, and welcome to Flyertalk.
Please do a simple search in this forum for voluminous answers to your questions which already exist. But in short: If selected for backscatter you can opt out and insist on a hands-on patdown, but you cannot opt out of both. You cannot tell TSA, it's the regular metal detector or nothing for me. And once you are in the checkpoint, if you are selected for backscatter and refuse to go through either the scanner or the patdown, you are subject to arrest. If you are determined not to submit to either scanner or patdown, and you know your airport does not have a BKSX-free checkpoint, then you should consider not flying. CombatMedic, above, makes the fair point that attractive young women are often singled out for backscatter treatment by TSOs while middle-aged male business travelers are frequently ignored. Either TSA knows cute girls are more likely to have terrorist contraband secreted on their bodies or there is some other reason for this that has nothing to do with security. Please think about what you may be subjecting any female children to, and for that matter yourself, to satisfy the prurient interest of invisible scanner-image monitors. |
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 15382379)
And once you are in the checkpoint, if you are selected for backscatter and refuse to go through either the scanner or the patdown, you are subject to arrest.
2.11. INDIVIDUALS WHO REFUSE SCREENING OF THEIR PERSON The screening process of an individual begins when he or she walks through a WTMD (or an ETP if it is placed ahead of the WTMD at ETP-equipped checkpoints), or a TSO grants an individual’s request for specialized screening. Once screening has begun, an individual may not withdraw from the screening process. A. If an individual refuses screening of his or her person before screening has begun, the TSO must deny the 2.12. INDIVIDUALS WHO REFUSE SCREENING OF ACCESSIBLE PROPERTYindividual entry into the sterile area. B. If an individual refuses to complete screening after screening has begun, the TSO must notify the STSO. The STSO must advise the individual that the screening process must be completed. The STSO must then offer the individual a final opportunity to complete the screening process. If the individual continues to refuse screening, the STSO must: 1) Notify an LEO and request that the LEO assist in completing screening of the individual C. If the individual, who has refused to complete screening, returns to the public area prior to clearance or the2) Ensure that screening of the individual’s accessible property is completed 3) Inform TSA management if the LEO permits the individual to return to the public area without completing screening arrival of an LEO: 1) Screening personnel must attempt to keep the individual under constant observation until an LEO D. If an unscreened individual proceeds into the sterile area, all screening at that screening checkpoint mustarrives. 2) Screening personnel must not physically detain or hinder the movement of the individual. be stopped and no other individuals are permitted to enter the sterile area until directed to resume screening operations by TSA management. The screening of an individual’s accessible property begins when he or she places accessible property on the x-ray belt or an individual hands accessible property to TSA screening personnel. Once screening has begun, the individual may not withdraw the item(s) from screening. A. If the individual refuses screening of his or her accessible property before screening begins, the TSO must 4.3.16. INDIVIDUALS SEEKING EXEMPTION FROM SELECTEE STATUSdeny the accessible property entry into the sterile area. B. If the individual refuses to complete screening of property after it has begun, the TSO must notify the STSO. The STSO must then offer the individual a final opportunity to complete the screening process. If the individual continues to refuse screening, the STSO must notify an LEO and ensure that screening of the individual’s accessible property is completed, either by TSA or an LEO. C. If the individual leaves the checkpoint without the accessible property prior to clearance screening personnel must: 1) Not open or continue inspection of the individual’s accessible property and notify a BAO if available D. If an individual proceeds into the sterile area with unscreened property, all screening at that screeningor TSA management. 2) Notify an LEO and attempt to keep the individual under constant observation until an LEO arrives. 3) Not attempt to physically detain or hinder the movement of the individual. checkpoint must be stopped and no other individuals permitted into the sterile area until directed to resume screening operations by TSA management. A. If an individual disputes his or her status as a selectee prior to the start of the screening process, the TSO must notify the STSO who must take one of the following actions: 1) Require the individual to return to the aircraft operator to confirm the selectee markings (“SSSS”) OR B. Any selectee who has already begun the screening process by walking through the WTMD (or an ETP if it is placed ahead of the WTMD at ETP-equipped checkpoints) or submitting their accessible property for screening does not have the option to return to the aircraft operator ticket counter. Complete the entire selectee screening process for these individuals. If the individual refuses to complete screening, follow the procedures in Sections 2.11. and/or 2.12. of this SOP.
2) Screen the individual as a selectee passenger and apply the distinctive marking to the individual’s boarding pass. |
I don't know what the hell all that says, but I do know that:
** Screening area begins at the ID-checking podium ** Proceeding into the screening area means you are consenting to comply with TSA procedures ** TSA procedures change all the time and you cannot anticipate, control or argue this ** When you encounter a procedure that seems to depart from official TSA policy and argue the point, you may receive punitive treatment including patdowns ** You do not get to choose between nude-o-scopes and conventional metal detectors - the choice is made for you ** Attempting to opt out of both new-gen scanning, when you are chosen for it, and an invasive patdown equates to noncompliance with TSA procedures, and there are sanctions for this which may include arrest and fines That's all the OP needs to know, really. |
Originally Posted by Hilaryoptsout
(Post 15382334)
Does everyone have to go through the xray or receive a pat-down, or is that restricted to people who fail the metal detector or are 'randomly' selected?
My children (ages 16, 10) will be flying in a few days and I opt-out of both screening methods (both airports have BKSX). The only way I would let them fly is if they go through the metal detector. Should we even bother? |
Thank you for your replies. I have done extensive research but have not found my exact answer. I understand that if I opt out of both I may be subject to arrest, and while I don't want to be arrested, I'd be okay if was for exercising my 4th amendment. I wont bother going to the airport and forfeit the non-refundable tickets if metal detectors are not in the equation. If they are used, we start with a 50-50 chance (then factor for the attractiveness).
I unfortunately have to take the chance if there is one. My kids (16 yr old boy and a 10 yr old girl) have to see their father as per our visitation agreement. We purchased these tickets pre-tsa changes (and not knowing anything about them). While their father feels the same way as I do about the new procedures and will opt-out as well, I feel I have to take the risk because the alternative is driving 2500mi (their dads tires are bald so I have to do two 1250mi roundtrip) in the winter. |
John "don't touch my junk" Tyner opted out of both the porn machine and the grope and he was not arrested or fined. He was allowed to leave the airport. I would be curious as to whether an LEO (the TSA has no real power) could do a force-grope on you. Presumably a group of LEOs (probably male) would have to hold you down and fondle your genitals if there really is no double opt out as BearX claims. Or could they detain you at the checkpoint for years? Both scenarios sound improbable to me.
Make sure you inform your kids what might happen and have a plan if you are not able to fly or get arrested for refusing to be sexually assaulted. If your 10 year old daughter is pretty she will probably get chosen for the scope. Does she mind being seen naked by some strange adult in a hidden room? Maybe you should ask her. You might also coach her on what to do if the TSO grabs her junk. I'd advise yelling "Help! Police!". I think there is no more sympathetic a victim than a 10 year old girl. |
** Proceeding into the screening area means you are consenting to comply with TSA procedures ** TSA procedures change all the time and you cannot anticipate, control or argue this |
Originally Posted by Hilaryoptsout
(Post 15382334)
Does everyone have to go through the xray or receive a pat-down, or is that restricted to people who fail the metal detector or are 'randomly' selected?
My children (ages 16, 10) will be flying in a few days and I opt-out of both screening methods (both airports have BKSX). The only way I would let them fly is if they go through the metal detector. Should we even bother? |
Originally Posted by LuvAirFrance
(Post 15382879)
...this means "I am consenting to something that is totally unpredictable." And the courts accept this logic.
OP, please note that eyecue is an employee of TSA. |
Originally Posted by eyecue
(Post 15383138)
As far as your [10 yr old] daughter is concerned, there is no point in selecting her for the NOS becaue of her looks.
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She hasn't "blossomed". But perverts often are attracted for that very REASON.
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Originally Posted by Hilaryoptsout
(Post 15382539)
Thank you for your replies. I have done extensive research but have not found my exact answer. I understand that if I opt out of both I may be subject to arrest...
You cannot be arrested for failing to complete screening, since it is not a crime but a violation of an administrative search (ie.civil offence), punishable by an $11000 fine. If a LEO is summoned he/she can detain you while the screeners record your information, the screeners themselves cannot legally detain you but will do so simply by refusing to return your belongings. If you try to retrieve them forcibly they will no doubt cry 'assault'. All that said, I don't know if anyone has actually been fined. Corrections ? |
Originally Posted by eyecue
(Post 15383138)
Know your airport and know what NOS they have. You are right about a 50 50 chance so take it. As far as your daughter is concerned, there is no point in selecting her for the NOS becaue of her looks. The person viewing the image may or may not be male, and there really is nothing erotic or beautiful about the image.
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