N965VJ

Could you point us to where one could learn that passengers will be forced to expose their midriff in the course of a Standard Pat Down, or any of the other abuses? I've been posting the two closest descriptions of the new pat downs for several weeks now, found from a screener posting on Fark.com and a FA union website. Neither describe the scenarios in this thread.



There are more effective ways to screen passengers at the checkpoint that do not involve Nude-O-Scopes or genital gropes, but people like Michael Chertoff and other lobbyists do not have a financial interest in seeing them used.



TSA screeners are not tasked, or have the training, to do investigative law enforcement work. There have been many reports of this ending badly, with the child in tears, when they overstep their authority.

FetePerfection

These sickening reports of passenger abuse continue to pile up, yet our courts, the ACLU and our lawmakers are slow to respond. Why hasn't a temporary injunction been filed to stop these heavy-handed tactics called patdowns and the use of NoS until such time as a solution or compromise reached?

I am aware a few lawsuits have been filed by individual flyers but what about a class-action against Nappy, Pistole, TSA, DHS and the rest? Why no Congressional hearings? Do we have to wait for the new Congress to convene meanwhile flyers face the growing threat of abuses over the next holiday season? What about the ACLU? I've read a few anecdotes but nothing substantial. Who's protecting us? Who's fighting on our behalf? Who really cares?

CBRob

I agree. During my incident with TSA, I was very vocal and called the "procedure" by its proper name: SEXUAL ASSAULT!

I have traveled in Asia and Europe and never had an experience like this one:

On November 20th, I was leaving Norfolk, Virginia for Seattle (on my way to Alaska for my niece's wedding. BTW- I am a middle aged white woman. I went through the metal detector with no problems, except they asked me to remove the jacket of my travel suit, which I did. Then I was approached by a woman TSA agent who asked me to go to a glassed in area. She then told me she was going to feel inside my waist band and then pat me down, including touching my crotch area. I said I was not comfortable with this and I would like to talk to her supervisor. The supervisor came over and said that "this is our procedure". I got loud at this point saying that I considered touching my crotch to be sexual assault. He said that it was the only way that I would get on the plane. Then he called his supervisor, for who I had to sit and wait. He gave the same answer "this is our procedure". I asked why I was being searched like this and was told it was that I had "baggy pants". The pants were made of a stretchy material for travel but were not oversized. I asked if I could go to the private room and remove the offending pants. I was told that they were going to do the procedure no matter what I had on. Leaving me no choice but to miss my plane and the wedding. I submitted myself to the "procedure" which did include frimly feeling my crotch. I was traumatized by this experience and so shaken that I was crying and could hardly speak as they handed me the "complaint form" that I requested. The refused to give me the agents name other than "Angela". They said that they were not required to give last names. .

Saitek

That is my point.

heres the thing, the Govt abuses us, and then we turn to the govt to protect us from the abuse they are dishing out?!

So far, after ALL these reports, videos and udio documentation of obvious illegal conduct by the govt against innocent civilians, not a single court in the US has ruled on this massively explosive issue. Why is this?

People all over the country are SCREAMING for help from the govt. And the govt has basically told the people of our nation; 'sucks to be you' as they get a free pass to go around the TSA checkpoints.

When the Govt fails to act, and fails to uphold the laws, rights and liberties of the people above it, then the people need to step up to the plate and take action.

Up to this point, people have 'followed the rules' they didnt get loud, they didnt get physical, for the most part. They took their abuse quietly and politely, and then filed their complaints to the TSA ACLU and other deaf eared channels.

The result? Nothing.

If you as a person, wont step up to the plate and defend your own rights, freedoms and liberties why do you expect others to do it for you?

We are a nation, that in the past, when something was amiss, we could make a complaint and the problem was generally rectified pretty fast. I cant recall, any time in the passed 40 years, where such wide spread abuse acrossed the entire country has taken place with such thorough documentation of such abuse, and the govt, the WHOLE govt down to the local courts, and LEO's REFUSE to address the situation.

Thats my point. We as a people are on our own with this whole situation. The courts so far have thrown us to the wolves... So will we be eaten or will we fight back just a little bit harder? cause obviously, being quiet about it and hoping someone catches it on their cell phone isnt working.

My other thought I had yesterday while preparing dinner, was getting all or even most of those who have documented abuse from the tsa, together, and filing a class action lawsuit against EVERYONE involved... going so far as nameing individual smurfs, supervisors, LEOs name Pistole, and Big sis, along with the president in the lawsuit. Add to the lawsuit a monetary settlement clause that will force those named to be forced to pay for counselling or other medical bills as the result of the abuse for which they were put through...

Not sure how feasable this would be, but holding those who are responsible for the abuse, to be held personally liable financially for the abuse they dished out... instead of making the the american tax payer pay for it, make those that did the abusing pay for it out of their own pockets.

nhcowboy

I don't think anyone here is objecting to use of the metal detector or to appropriate screening if metal on ones person causes the WTMD to alarm. The issue that was raised in this thread was what to do with a passenger who, for whatever reason (age, disability, etc.), needs to get to a restroom before the secondary screening is completed. If you've waited in line for 90 minutes and have to use the bathroom now, what do you do? Experience seems to suggest that if the passenger complains in a situation like that, he/she is more likely to be ignored (or even deliberately delayed) than assisted.

CBRob - Please speak up! Not just here, but to your local, state, and U.S. government representatives. Ask them to enact laws to prevent this from happening. Ask them to prosecute the TSOs responsible. And, if you're willing, contact your local media. I understand that it would be embarrassing to have your story made public, but it is very important for people to know that this is not just happening to a few isolated strangers on the other side of the country, but also to their neighbors . . . to people just like them!

Thanks for sharing your story with us.

RosemaryT

I'm also in Norfolk and that's my home airport. Like you, I'm a middle-aged white woman. Those who say the TSA doesn't profile are dead wrong. I've spent way too much time in airports observing TSA and there's an undeniable bias toward middle-class WASP types getting pulled out of line for additional screening.

I guess we're just voted "least likely to raise a fuss."

It's very, very, very frustrating.

2089x5449

I wasn't commenting on the OP, I was responding to Psywarrior's claim that allowing someone to leave after setting off the metal detector would represent a security failing. From an air travel security standpoint, it would not. It doesn't matter why the person left--to go to the bathroom or to throw away a gun--the sterile area remains inviolate. I don't care whether Psywarrior's notional septuagenarian suicide bomber is discovered by TSA, or if the TSA simply forces her to turn around and divest herself of her bomb. Both are successes for transportation security.

If I were in charge of security, I would allow someone who had alarmed the WTMD to leave the drunk tank and go to a non-sterile bathroom (ew) without a second thought. Said person is going to be patted down anyway, so it's not like they're going to use their bathroom break to smuggle something through security.

TheGolfWidow

Total props to her. I don't think that would be easy for some of us to do what she did, and she is a complete shero.

But, to be fair, that guy did not position himself as an authority figure to her (makes me laugh to even type it...) nor did she have much concern that her reaction to his behavior might land her in jail. It's not quite analogous to the situation at the airport checkpoint, where the person being 'escorted to the police station' may very well be the one who objected to having his/her private areas handled by a complete stranger.

Again...props to her and thanks for sharing it.

doober

CBRob, use the links in my signature line to inform both EPIC and the ACLU of the treatment you received.

EPIC's suit to stop the use of WBI is to be heard, I believe, next Thursday.

I believe the ACLU is taking its time to collect narrations of incidents before it, too, goes after the TSA. It needs to have proof, as unassailable as possible, before heading to court.

I do wish, however, that it would be possible to get one of these suits fast-tracked to SCOTUS.

exbayern

Saitek, you said that you do not fly.

I don't know when you last flew from a US airport, but the fact that you readily admit that you do not fly makes me wonder if you really understand the current situation. There was a poster from Norway yesterday here who didn't understand the 'fuss' here about 'silly' procedures. To me that choice of words was rather demeaning and I directed him to this thread.

If one doesn't fly, or only flies to/from non-US airports, one may not have any concept of how difficult it can be sometimes to speak up. If you don't see how much power the TSA tries to have over passengers, and how they bully and threaten passengers, it is easy to sit at home and judge people and tell them that they are wrong.

Try and put yourself in someone else's shoes for a minute, and put your bravado and boasting aside. Try and imagine what it is like to be elderly, or sick, or in pain, or not have English skills, or to be from another country, and then imagine standing in front of someone who has the power to deny you access to your flight, or to cause you more pain, or to shame you, or to threaten you with being put on a list.

For all that you think you will react one way, you may indeed find yourself reacting differently. I know that you are trying to help, but I find you are in fact treating LeeAnne (and me) and anyone else who has been in similar situations in the wrong fashion.

Instead of telling us that we are wrong, and we are at fault, why not truly take some action if you are that angry? Circulate this story, bring it to the media, or maybe go experience for yourself what it is really like.

SEAFFLYER

exbayern

Well thank you - I missed the 17 years part!

dgcpaphd

You can thank Pistole, Napolotano, but most of all, Obama for your terrible experience.

John Pistole (aka - Reichsführer-SS) ordered the scanning and groping of passengers. Napolotano (the incompetent one) goes along with Pistole's ordered abuses.

Obama knows about the abuses but does nothing to stop them. To make matters more puzzling, Obama invited the owner of the company that manufactures the scanners aboard Air Force One and took the owner to India on Obama's recent visit there.

With the owner of the scanner company being a travel buddy of Obama, do we really believe that Obama is going to order the machines removed or put out of service until there is further testing on the long-term effects of the machines?

The only medical studies about the machines came from employees of the scanner company or medical testimony hired by the scanner company. That is not a valuable assessment of the scanners.

At the same time the scanner company claims the scanners are harmless, reputable medical studies and physicians state that more time is needed to study the effects of the scanner. Most physicians report that the radiation can cause cancer in certain individuals.

Where are the lawsuits to stop the abuses? ACLU filed one suit on behalf of two pilots. TSA backed off as a result of the action being filed and exempted pilots from the scanners and gropings. The lawsuit was then dismissed.
-

exbayern

Saitek, I honestly believe that you want to be helpful. I do believe that... But here are some suggestions as to how you can help.

By now I would assume that you have contacted the various media in ATL, PHX, and BUR to share this story with them.

Next I would assume that you have spread this story amongst your friends, and that you have copied it on every travel related website which has forum, including places like Frommers, TripAdvisor, and fora related to specialty interest travel like CruiseCritic.

You can next purchase a refundable airline ticket, and go to the airport to 'defend' or speak up for other travellers. Check in, pack a carry on (it has been 17 years so you most likely are not up on the latest procedures and rules, but that is fine - that will make you more like the travellers you are trying to defend). Watch the security lines for awhile and place yourself behind someone who you think may need your assistance. That may require some navigating, and the person who may requires assistance may not actually look like what you expect.

Then stand up, speak up, be heard. 'Do you want to fly today' won't have an impact on you, as you were NOT planning on flying.

Come back and report to us how it went, and the outcome.

Those are all things which someone like you can do, without stepping on to an airplane, and I mean that in all seriousness.

NotaCriminal

Actually, it's the Rutherford Institute who filed the suit on behalf of pilots Poe and Roberts. The lawsuit has not been dismissed. It's my understanding, according to Plaintiff Roberts, that they'll proceed with the suit. The thread, including the email exchange between the lawyer(s) and Roberts and Poe is located here.