This is an absolutely appalling, astounding, outrageous statement, from a purported TSA employee, no less. It concedes that flight attendants -- who are NOT pilots with their hands on the controls -- have direct access to the cockpit, BUT SHOULD NOT BE SCREENED, REGARDLESS OF THAT. This speaks directly to the complete stupidity and worthlessness of any security measures that would force some to endure nude body searches and gropings, while PEOPLE WITH DIRECT ACCESS TO THE COCKPIT ARE TRUSTED, ON THEIR HONOR, TO NOT INTERFERE WITH THOSE IN CONTROL OF THE FLIGHT.

Didn't we just see a JetBlue FA flip out recently to the point that he was accused of endangering lives with his unauthorized departure from an airliner? Why is it so much of a reach to think of this in the extreme case?

It would only take a little time in training, a single rogue FA with a moment in the cockpit and two dead pilots to ruin the day for a lot of passengers. But don't pay attention to that, Mr. and Mrs. America, 'cuz surely that's the bulletproof security Pissy is promising us all.

Incredible.

Because the dog manufacturers don't have a huge lobby budget like the nude-o-scope manufacturers. ;-)

That's just hearsay from someone posting pseudonymously on a Web forum until the source is cited and we can read it for ourselves.

(But TSA refuse to allow us to read the rules they require us to follow, much less the policies our public employees are supposed to adhere to in the performance of their duties for us, so nobody hold your breath.)

Dont forget that the radiation emitted from the xray machines , those numbers are CLASSIFIED and we must take the trustworthy word of the TSA that they are 'safe' Even though medical staff around the world are saying these machines are anything but safe. But lets not talk about that.

Fact is, when you subject 1/2 the populations of a country, to a machine that has the ability to send radiation thruogh their bodies, people have a right, to know what exactly they are being subjected too. Why hasnt the exact means by which these machines work, what levels of radiation they emitt, been disclosed to the public?

TSA and DHS use the montra, that if you have nothing to hide then you will use these machines, well if these machines were so safe why is the DHS keeping important statistical information about these machines classified?

National Security? BS! The peoples rights, freedoms and liberties trump any National Security protocol. After all, National Security is supposed to be protecting those rights, freedoms and liberties from being endangered. However, the Govt seems to be using National Security as a way to remove rights freedoms and liberties.

Maybe the Milk-Bone people should weigh in on this. Dog treat consumption could skyrocket.

Well, not all TSOs are professional. Perhaps TSOs who did a bad job with the pat downs and generated too many complaints were put on a different duty or re-trained. If the procedures haven't changed but peoples' experiences have, it just speaks to inconsistency within the agency and poor training (which we know is pervasive anyway from the GAO report).

And if you recall, that was in response to passenger outcry, not because Pistole or anyone else bothered to think it through.

Yes, but how staffed are you today and is there more overflow going through the WTMD?

Obviously, some TSOs do it wrong.

That would be nice.

How effective is ETD?

Right. Good luck proving causatoin.

Good luck with that.

No, they are not.

Excellent point.

Don't they use non-latex gloves now?

That would be a big part of it.

I was under the impression that the Hopkins study did publish the radiation emission test results but didn't specify a conclusion with respect the specific health risks of the scanner, but rather the anticipated effect on the body of exposure to that amount of radiation. What was not taken into account is that the machines are not regularly tested by an outside authority (like gas pumps are, for example) and the question of what effect absorbing all the radiation in the skin as opposed to the whole body has not been answered.

Yes, but risk MANAGEMENT, not risk avoidance.

An explosive can be hidden just as easily under the clothing of a minor accompanying a terrorist as a terrorist flying solo.

+1

Well reasoned, concise. I agree.

Ok, here is what I observed today at DEN from about 10-11:30 local time. I strolled between the 2 main checkpoints in the main hall and the checkpoint that leads to Concourse A. All the lines were going smoothly. In fact, there were just about as many media people as there were TSA clerks. The 2 main checkpoints have 2 NoS for each (I think 10 total lanes at each checkpponts). The A concourse has 4-5 lanes with 1 NoS that I could see. I saw one religious protester (carried a sandwich board) standing near one checkpoint. I did not observe anyone handing out flyers about NOOD and the NoS machines. However, I over heard a few passengers state they wouldnt go through one if required. I watched the NoS for each checkpoint and saw it was used the entire time with a mixture of both genders being called in to use it. One interesting thing about the NoS was some where still patted down (only their upper body) after exiting the scanner. That happened approximately 80% of the time. They did not receive the full patdowns at all. For the approximately 90 minutes I was observing, I only saw about 6 actual patdowns (from people going through the WTMD). As far as I could tell, not only were these patdowns conducted a lot faster, there was no more groping. As compared to the day I watched on the 1st day they were rolled out on 1 Nov (same airport, same checkpoints; those patdowns were longer and more involved). So I would have to dispute SATTSO's claim that they havent been changed. It is my perception that the patdowns today were faster and more professional. A few more observations from today were: got to witness my first FAMs going through. They went through a side area near checkpoint 10 and signed a log sheet after going through. They did not use the WTMD and of course their bags were not screened. Rather, they used the same side area that all the TSA clerks would come back from their break (saw several with airport soft drink cups). I did watch one guy lose his large tube of toothpaste but he was not further screened or given a patdown. Secondly, I did not see anyone writing passengers's information down if they recevied a patdown. Finally, something new at each entry of the checkpoints was the video by Pistole being looped and played continously. I did hear that they still said quart sized bags were needed and gallon sized bags are not allowed. I thought SATTSO said it didnt matter the size of the bag now? I am going to be flying next week so will get an opportunity to pass through the checkpoint. I will be interesting if today's operation was just a show for the media (and NOOD) or if this is what reality will be at DEN. I will still opt out of the NoS but I know which line to get into to avoid them.

Within the first week of the new pat downs, two descriptions were found of the Standard Pat Down and Alarm Resolution Pat Down. We still need to track down the procedure for those under 12, and the TSA employees I've asked have declined to offer any substantive comment.

..................................

A screener on Fark.com:


Here's the dealeo, if you alarm the WTMD for whatever reason, hip or knee replacement ie, and you are unable to divest enuff metal to clear with any further passes, you are now a recipient for a Standard Pat Down.

We will pat down every inch of your bod and when we get to your mid section we will sliiiide a hand up your inner thigh til we "meet resistance" Exact wording.

Then, we swab our gloved hands and if they alarm, you then receive an "Alarm Resolution pat-down".

This is done by a Lead or a Sup. and is always done in a private screening area.
The only difference with this one is that when he/she gets to your "groin" area he/she is now going to turn his/her lil hands around and pass them over your "groin" area with the front of his/her hands 6 times. 3 across & 3 going down and then swab his/her hands again.

If they alarm again, well it gets a little gray after that.




..............................

A FA union website has the following description:

Pat-Down Procedures

When conducting a standard pat down, a same-gender TSA screener will use a sliding method to verify external areas of the body for weapons or explosive materials. This process includes sliding his/her gloved hand up each leg until resistance is met. Additionally, the screener will slide his/her gloved hand across the groin and buttocks areas and under the breast area. If any anomalies are detected, the screener may resolve it by swiping inside the collar or waistband as necessary. Anything unusual detected during screening must be resolved. Resolution pat-down procedures will be utilized at this point. Private screening (upon request) is available to all passengers & crew members at any time in the screening process and will be utilized at all times when it is necessary to resolve an anomaly that is detected. If a resolution pat-down is necessary, two same-gender TSA screeners will be present and the individual being screened may bring a travel companion to the private screening area.

"dealeo?"
"enuff?"
"bod?"

And those people are allowed power over educated professionals? Get back to flipping burgers!

In my previous post, I forgot to mention the most exciting thing that happened in the 90 mins of my observing today. I was approached by a TSA guy to determine why I was just hanging out and watching the checkpoints/screenings. Interestingly enough, I had been standing in this particular point for about 10 minutes when he approached me. Here is the conversation:

TSA: "Wow, that is interesting jacket that guy has on." referring to a particular passenger wearing a Daniel Boone jacket with some intricate beadwork on it that was going through the WTMD closest to us.
Me: "Yeah...I heard him (the jacket wearing guy) say that if he ever had to get rid of the jacket, he was keeping the beadwork."
TSA: "Are you here to see anyone off?"
Me: "No"
TSA: "Just watching the craziness of today's checkpoint?"
Me: "Yes"

He then called over a clerk inside the screeing area (who apparently thought I was being suspicious) and said "I have nothing here" and he walked away with another TSA clerk. I was not taking any photos, talking with any other passengers or holding any type of sign. I was just respectively standing there and casually observing.

I respect SATTSO for at least sounding respectful and level-headed. I don't think this whole issue would have blown up half as badly as it did if TSA workers had some respect and a pleasant customer service attitude. Many of them seemingly have attitudes worse than cops, probably because they think they cannot be reprimanded, are far less trained than police, are fully backed by the government for any abuse they want to dole out to people, cannot be recorded so their bad behavior cannot be proven, etc. This is the reason some airports are looking at private security firms, which I fully support. If you work for the federal government every single person you grope pays your wages, have some respect. We as human beings deserve some compassion, a few kind words, maybe even a smile, as we go through this obviously intrusive and demeaning procedure. You'd think that would be common sense. Air travel is going down, if it goes back up when private security personnel with good manners process us, then TSA airport employees can say goodbye to their jobs. Everyone else has to be pleasant at their jobs, you should as well.

And sorry, I've read that these people work 4 hour shifts for quite a while before they can even be considered for full time, what part of 4 hours is too tiring for you to do your job correctly? Laughing as I type this, given all the hours in a week I work. At first, I thought you know they are probably overworked, etc., even though its no excuse, it's a possible reason for all the bad attitude.

I'm sure after a few years of doing that job that the people just seem like cattle but if you can't treat every person like a person then you should be fired from the job. Guess we're lucky none of those TSA patters are doctors, huh?