While I don't possess an IC agency badge, I have routine access to relevant information, and have been in the room countless times when the IC briefs policy level bodies with supervisory authority over aviation security and security in general, since 9/11.

A significant amount of what some of our resident TSO's and their defenders claim is simply not backed up by the facts, and TSA's current treatment of passengers as the greatest threat to aviation security is not supported by the facts. DHS and TSA know this, and yet they maintain their Security Theater because at this point, they can't go to Congress and say "we goofed."

If there is a successful attack on a commercial aircraft from "under the wing" - and sadly, there probably will be - all of this will eventually come out. Unfortunately, innocent people will pay for this with their lives, but hey, protecting DHS and TSA is more important, right? :rolleyes:

Obviously you do not pay attention very closely, I found the following references to TSOs or TSA personnel in 1 thread here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...n-payback.html

"suing these a&&hats PERSONALLY, since they've violated their own procedures."

"I cannot imagine seeing my wife or child, or any person I care about, mind-raped in this shameless and hideous manner by these total swine."

"OK Pissy, lets see you explain this incident to the American Public!"

"There is a reason why Pissy wants armed TSOs with arrest powers. Not to mention airport gestapo in certain facilities"

"Perhaps, Pisser needs to make another call with a personal apology"

"If you are referring to Jabba the Hut, it was a she."

I am quite certain that with about 5 minnutes of really digging, I can find Nazi, brownshirt, fascist and a number of other personal insults towards individuals. This was a valid point made by TB.

IIRC it was a reference to the tyranny of the clerks (qv.) which gave rise to that particular epithet, and I concur with the tyranny aspect. I agree, call them screeners, that's what they are; that's all they are. (Don't know why Firefox insists 'screeners' isn't a word though. :confused: )

I also believe that some supervisors and/or managers are intimidated by the very people (screeners) they are supposed to be overseeing. Call it peer pressure, laziness, "team spirit" or whatever but it takes a bit of intestinal fortitude to call out your subordinates on a regular basis. Something which is lacking in a number of cases.

heres another name to try on for size... thieves. your shower helped themselves to some items from my shrinkwrapped checked luggage and until i recieve an apology and confirmation in writing that the guilty party is fired and incarcerated i shall continue to regard all tsa clerks the same as they view the travelling public... guilty, never to be proven innocent

cry me a river....

TB, if you are still reading, sorry to see you no longer feel comfortable here.

I've had the same experience myself. I went to the TSA blog with an open mind, thinking finally there would be a slim chance to get explanations, answers, a rational give-and-take.

Instead I found an exchange deliberately moderated to allow alleged TSA employees to routinely mislead, misinform and insult members of the public. In particular, I got really tired of alleged TSA employees saying everything would go smoothly at the airport if people would just read the webpage and follow the information posted there.

Presumably the same employees who routinely denied the accuracy, currency and applicability of the webpage information.

I saw a pervasive feeling of 'us vs. them' on the website.

I went there in good faith. I left. I didn't bother to make a farewell post chastising Bob for allowing vitriolic posts from users who alleged to be TSA employees, ie, de facto representatives of the organization. I didn't bother to point out that I felt insulted by condescending, misleading and lying posts made by Bob himself. I didn't bother to respond in kind, but I certainly understood and sympathized with the frustration of the pax posters who did so.

You would like to see FT 'self-police'. I'd like to see the members of your organization do the same, on the blog, here, and at the checkpoints. We'd all be better off.

Hmmm! Wasn't it your agency's administrator, who just last week, determined that once airline and airport employees had been given get out of the nude-o-scope free cards, the TSA could now concentrate on the rest of us, since we were all the "potential terrorists"?
Your agency's brush is far more broad and far more ugly.

As for TB... Buh-bye.

I agree with you that there are several instances where the conversation on TSAs blog boils down to a us v them festival, and I truly hate that. I can understand both sides of that issue - passengers that feel unfairly put upon come to the blog to make a point, and seek (in some cases) guidance to make certain that they do not suffer a repeat of their difficulties again. I wish there were a way to channel the constructive suggestions into a think tank or the management pool to help us understand different points of view, and problems that occur from time to time, and many of the points made in the lucid complaints are heard and forwarded up to HQ (if not read by HQ beforehand). The biggest problem is the chaff and junk posts that obscure these valid complaints, questions, and suggestions.

On the other hand, you have TSA personnel that have worked at an airport for 8 years and have never seen anything even close to what is being posted. That can lend to a tendency to not understand what is being said, or to disbelief (in some cases) because they have never had it happen before. Combine the fact that they have worked in their airport for 8 years, never seen anything like it, and stack all the chaff and junk posts (from BOTH TSA and non TSA folks) on top of it, and it can make some folks take on an adversarial edge. I dislike that, and one of the calmer heads on this site is now bowing out because they are tired of the chaff and resulting stuff that goes with it.

To be honest, there are times when I read something here and coming from a smaller airport, I can not relate to it. I have worked for a 30 day stint at LAX and have a better grasp than some of my coworkers here, but it is hard to relate to some things because I do not see them here - ever. The vitriolic posts run both ways and sadly that detracts from the conversation on a basic level.:(


Passengers are not potential terrorists, they are simply passengers. We screen them according to the SOP so there is no tendency to profile one type of person over another. I, for one, disagree with letting the flight crews go with no screening. I am also in agreement with several of the posters on here that TSA personnel could be screened entering the checkpoint as well - as in, I do not mind screening upon entry to the checkpoint. There are several things we do right as an agency, there are also seveeral areas that offer us a chance for improvement.

Interesting that both in quoting those lines from that thread and in the thread itself you have said nothing about the passenger being detained and being poorly treated by the TSA at PHX.

You seem much more concerned about a TSO being called "Jabba the Hutt."

I guess everyone has their "thing."

I have not commented on the video because this was a separate thread. I think the situation was poorly handled and without the benefit of all information on the incident, I can't comment any further than that. I was merely clicking on the first thread to make the point that worse terminologies are used in reference to TSA members here on a regular basis, and that TB was making a valid point.

Tranquilized? You are too kind.

But isn't that the point of a moderated blog? If TSA wasn't going to commit adequate resouces to the blog or if Bob simply isn't up to the task, perhaps it would be better to shut it down and end the charade.

I get the point about folks at small/slow airports having limited experience. I don't quite get why they automatically assume that if they haven't personally seen it, the pax must be lying. But what is wrong with Bob stepping in when an alleged TSO makes an incorrect post? If he steps in and adds/corrects the post, both the pax and the errant TSO can benefit. He does occasionally step in to 'correct' a pax, but I never see him do it with posts by alleged TSOs that are clearly incorrect. That lapse on his part just increases the 'us vs them' tone of the blog. It encourages the view that Bob thinks TSA and alleged TSOs are always righter than pax. It certainly doesn't come across as anything remotely 'fair and balanced'.

(I make a point of referring to 'alleged' TSOs because I don't know if Bob always knows if someone professing to be a TSO really is one or not. Whether it's a non-TSO masquerading as a TSO to stir up trouble or an actual TSO with limited experience and an assumption that pax make things up, if Bob steps in and corrects the information, everyone benefits).

I believe I've seen you express awareness of the limitations of the blog. I believe someone (you or someone using your screenname posts there from time to time). Just curious...improving the blog doesn't seem so difficult to me - doesn't require Congressional hearings, extensive and costly 'training programs', etc. It's been years now - why don't we see any sign of improvement?

Too bad they can't hire Randy Peterson or some of the mods here. The blog would be vastly improved in short order. Not necessarily from the point of view of TSOs who don't know what they are talking about and expect unconditional support, but overall it would be better for all of us, pax and TSA.

Let's not blame the travelling public for the TSA not being able to put in place a mechanism for the dissemination of suggestions. Your own colleagues have said that IdeaFactory, the TSA's internal program for employees, has the same issues.

I think it is important to understand that there is a war going on here. The TSA and DHS declared a war against "terror" whatever that means. Although they seem to cause quite a bit of it themselves at checkpoints. I know I am scared by them. Even though my fear is of missing my plane.

The real war is between the TSA and the flying public and especially between the TSA and "Domestic Extremists" like the majority of the posters here. When a TSO posts here it is like someone from the National Socialist party of WWII Germany posting in a Jewish forum. Our views of the world and of right and wrong are just so different that it takes extra effort on both sides to have a peaceful discussion.

I for one am very glad that some TSOs have thick enough skin to even consider posting in a forum like this. It is the only way for us to get information directly from the horses mouth. But not to expect hatred on both sides is unrealistic. We are enemies. While I don't think it is warranted at the moment, I would eventually be willing to pick up a gun and participate in an armed rebellion to defend our freedom to travel. That means that the TSOs and I would be on opposite sides in a very real war.

Poorly Handled??
 

Huh? Please tell us what we outraged passengers are missing in that video that doesn't receive a "Leaving that woman in there to be humiliated in a glass box for that amount of time without contact looks to be outrageous" response from you? You said "poorly handled", but as an AMERICAN and a HUMAN with feelings, why are you not outraged that even ONE person would be treated like this in this country? Tell us why that doesn't rise to the level of a breakdown in humanity that does not even initially give you pause to think it would be inhumane.

Of course, we can all go back and try to justify how that situation would have happened - busy TSA, someone innocently forgot about her, etc., but at the initial outset, why couldn't you say "OMG, that's terrible!, I feel sorry for her." :confused:

If you are bound by some rules of TSA that doesn't allow you to express your true feelings, then I see no point for you to be even here because your responses will always be suspect and given no merit.