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-   -   If you can avoid flying, do so! (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1150429-if-you-can-avoid-flying-do-so.html)

JSFox Nov 19, 2010 8:53 pm

If you can avoid flying, do so!
 
One thing congressfolk and others will listen to is the travel industry complaining about loss of revenue and pending layoffs because of TSA. I just canceled an upcoming trip (UA gets credit for how they handled it) and hotel said I was the third person who'd canceled a stay because of TSA. Many can't afford not to fly and I won't be able to avoid 100% of my trips, but the more pain they feel, the more likely things are to get corrected.

Think about this - the TSA will not stop here. They will go further if they get away with this. And if the TSA gets away it, we'll see similar things happening at government buildings, schools, stadiums, and elsewhere.

exbayern Nov 19, 2010 8:57 pm


Originally Posted by JSFox (Post 15209813)
(UA gets credit for how they handled it)

Interesting - I was given an unasked for and unexpected waiver of change fees on UA when I intentionally changed a routing.

Lobbyist Nov 19, 2010 8:58 pm


Originally Posted by JSFox (Post 15209813)
One thing congressfolk and others will listen to is the travel industry complaining about loss of revenue and pending layoffs because of TSA. I just canceled an upcoming trip (UA gets credit for how they handled it) and hotel said I was the third person who'd canceled a stay because of TSA. Many can't afford not to fly and I won't be able to avoid 100% of my trips, but the more pain they feel, the more likely things are to get corrected.

Think about this - the TSA will not stop here. They will go further if they get away with this. And if the TSA gets away it, we'll see similar things happening at government buildings, schools, stadiums, and elsewhere.

So you want to hurt private companies to get your point across?

The transportation industry (airlines, hotels) does not have a powerful lobby... and nothing compared to the manufacturers of the machines in question. The airline lobby works primarily with the DoT and respective committees on things like route authorities. They have VERY LITTLE pull when it comes to things like this. Don't hurt a private company, just do things the right way... put pressure on your LOCAL leaders (state legislators, city councils in cities where the airport is physically located, local Chambers, etc.). A phone call from the Phoenix Chamber of Commerce President to John McCain will be returned and it will go a lot further than "Joe Smith Average American" or Will Ris from American Airlines calling.

stego Nov 19, 2010 9:08 pm


Originally Posted by Lobbyist (Post 15209879)
So you want to hurt private companies to get your point across?

Yes, yes I do!

Start to impact the bottom lines of those involved in the travel industry and then we might get some pressure in government to reign in the TSA.

Lobbyist Nov 19, 2010 9:12 pm


Originally Posted by stego (Post 15209983)
Yes, yes I do!

Start to impact the bottom lines of those involved in the travel industry and then we might get some pressure in government to reign in the TSA.

Do you not understand? They have very little say or power. If you want to get your point across then do it right. Get off the computer and write some letters right now to members of your airport board.

Do you know the state of the airline industry in this country? If you want to do this you may solve your problem... there will be no TSA left because there will be no airlines left.

Bad idea.

MikeMpls Nov 19, 2010 9:13 pm


Originally Posted by lobbyist (Post 15209879)
so you want to hurt private companies to get your point across?

yes!!!


Originally Posted by lobbyist (Post 15209879)
the transportation industry (airlines, hotels) does not have a powerful lobby... And nothing compared to the manufacturers of the machines in question. The airline lobby works primarily with the dot and respective committees on things like route authorities. They have very little pull when it comes to things like this.

bull!!!

Lobbyist Nov 19, 2010 9:16 pm


Originally Posted by MikeMpls (Post 15210045)
yes!!!



bull!!!

I you are very upset about this, but this is not the right way of getting what you want accomplished. Period.

No "bull". Do you work in the transportation industry? Are you a lobbyist? Do you really know or are you just assuming?

JSFox Nov 19, 2010 9:18 pm

Lobbyist, on many issues I'd agree with you, but not on this. I've worked in politics too long and covered it too long. Money & Votes are the two holy words of Washington. Given the seriousness of this issue I have no problem whatsoever putting financial pressure on the airlines, hotels, and rental car companies to utilize their power to force TSA to back down. Sometimes you have to grab whatever stick's available.

That said, most of my (and I assume many others) cutback and cancellation of travel is purely a natural reaction to TSA's moves anyway - A trip is no longer worth going through TSA.

MikeMpls Nov 19, 2010 9:22 pm


Originally Posted by Lobbyist (Post 15210077)
I you are very upset about this, but this is not the right way of getting what you want accomplished. Period.

No "bull". Do you work in the transportation industry? Are you a lobbyist? Do you really know or are you just assuming?

How many times have you said "Period." in your short posting career? No newbie w/ 9 posts under his belt is going to show up & have the last word on our discussions.

Voting with your pocketbook is a time-honored strategy for effecting change in our system.

Period.

Lobbyist Nov 19, 2010 9:22 pm


Originally Posted by JSFox (Post 15210102)
Lobbyist, on many issues I'd agree with you, but not on this. I've worked in politics too long and covered it too long. Money & Votes are the two holy words of Washington. Given the seriousness of this issue I have no problem whatsoever putting financial pressure on the airlines, hotels, and rental car companies to utilize their power to force TSA to back down. Sometimes you have to grab whatever stick's available.

That said, most of my (and I assume many others) cutback and cancellation of travel is purely a natural reaction to TSA's moves anyway - A trip is no longer worth going through TSA.

Money is what matters. Votes come with money. I have been a full-time, professional lobbyist for one of the largest K Street firms for 15+ years. I know how DC works.

Your local Chamber of Commerce or business association has more pull than Delta when it comes to this. Look up how much money your Chamber members have given the politicians you want to talk to and then how much came from the transportation industry. Then make your decision.

I am here to try and help -- and I am sorry but you are going about this the wrong way.


Originally Posted by MikeMpls (Post 15210133)
How many times have you said "Period." in your short posting career? No newbie w/ 9 posts under his belt is going to show up & have the last word on our discussions.

Voting with your pocketbook is a time-honored strategy for effecting change in our system.

Period.

OK -- then don't take my advice. What do I know? I came here to try and help you guys, but I can see that I am not welcome. You will not get what you want with your attitude and ideas like this... but what do I know? This is only my career.

jesirose Nov 19, 2010 9:25 pm


Originally Posted by Lobbyist (Post 15210026)
Do you not understand? They have very little say or power. If you want to get your point across then do it right. Get off the computer and write some letters right now to members of your airport board.



Actions speak louder than words. Writing letters is fine, but in America, we vote with our Wallets.

IrishDoesntFlyNow Nov 19, 2010 9:30 pm


Originally Posted by Lobbyist (Post 15210137)
Money is what matters. Votes come with money. I have been a full-time, professional lobbyist for one of the largest K Street firms for 15+ years. I know how DC works.

Your local Chamber of Commerce or business association has more pull than Delta when it comes to this. Look up how much money your Chamber members have given the politicians you want to talk to and then how much came from the transportation industry. Then make your decision.

I am here to try and help -- and I am sorry but you are going about this the wrong way.

Been there. Done that. Airport authorities at BWI are predictably unresponsive. Airlines (and hotels and rent-a-car companies) are collateral damage. I'm not going to subject myself to TSA tyranny just because the travel industry doesn't have effective lobbyists.

~~ Irish

sheneh Nov 19, 2010 9:35 pm


Originally Posted by jesirose (Post 15210168)
Actions speak louder than words. Writing letters is fine, but in America, we vote with our Wallets.

Most frequent flyers stay in chain hotels owned by big corporations. Airlines are big corporations. Big corporations give money to politicians and lobbyists. Depriving big corporations of money might make them give more money to lobbyists to get back their customers.

In any case, I don't want to dealt with TSA enough to travel if I don't need to, independent of any boycott. I'm just letting the people that would have gotten my money know.

MsTravelBug Nov 19, 2010 9:37 pm

Lobbyist, please don't be discouraged from continuing to post. Not everyone will agree with your advice, but some will find the exchange of viewpoints informative.

I'm very interested in finding the most effective way to oppose TSA's new procedures and would like to hear the pros and cons of various approaches. Even if I ultimately decide that I don't agree with some of them, there is value in hearing about and considering them.

jordanmills Nov 19, 2010 9:37 pm


Originally Posted by Lobbyist (Post 15210164)
but what do I know? This is only my career.

Really? 'Cause you're pretty new here and you're lacking the only credentials that matter here. I mean, I don't want to be offensive - you might really know what you're talking about. But you could be just as much a shill as most of the TSO accounts that post here.


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