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Old Nov 17, 10, 8:29 am   #1
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IND: No camera in private screening room

Good morning from Indianapolis (IND)......did my part for the movement by doing the opt-out.....just took 3 cries of "opt-out" before they found someone to do the enhanced patdown.....interesting to get the front-of-hand grope up-to-testicles from both front and back (the TSO hands were much wider than my legs).......

During the demeaning procedure which made me feel oh-so-American, I was staring-up at the ceiling noticing all the camera windows......so I talked with the 3-stripe supervisor afterwards to ask if all enhanced pat-downs were done in an place where the cameras could record them. He said "yes, but I don't think there's a camera in the private room in back."!!!!!!!!

Is that usual?
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Old Nov 17, 10, 8:46 am   #2
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He said "yes, but I don't think there's a camera in the private room in back."!!!!!!!!
The TSA could make extra money by providing live internet feed, like those porn chat rooms.
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Old Nov 17, 10, 8:54 am   #3
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TSA must not think you will need to record the encounter.. Supposedly, a witness is not even allowed to record the pat-down if you are pulled into a private room.
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Old Nov 17, 10, 8:56 am   #4
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It seems to me that having cameras in the "private room" would at least partly defeat the purpose of going to the private room in the first place.

Bruce
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Old Nov 17, 10, 9:15 am   #5
  
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However, it's another interesting thing to try. On what basis can they forbid you from recording the private pat-down? currently the TSA website states that all recording is fine except for security monitors.
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Old Nov 17, 10, 9:18 am   #6
  
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Originally Posted by TamCaP View Post
However, it's another interesting thing to try. On what basis can they forbid you from recording the private pat-down? currently the TSA website states that all recording is fine except for security monitors.
It goes on to say that local laws (in some cases the airports can have their own ordinances) have the right to restrict/prohibit filming, so if the airport administration of local LEOs feel that filming security procedures is a threat they can restrict it. They may also do it based on the idea that they're protecting the pax's privacy (!) by not letting people film their pat-down? I guess it depends on how buddy-buddy the airport and TSA are...

From http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/custome...rial_1029.shtm :
TSA does not prohibit photographs at screening locations; however, local laws, state statutes, or local ordinances may. We recommend contacting your local airport authority in advance to ensure you are familiar with their local procedures. While TSA does not prohibit the public, passengers or press from photographing, videotaping, or filming at screening locations, TSA may ask a photographer to stop if they are interfering with the screening process or taking photos of X-ray monitor screens in a checkpoint.

Last edited by zpaul; Nov 17, 10 at 9:29 am Reason: accuracy
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Old Nov 17, 10, 9:21 am   #7
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Originally Posted by TamCaP View Post
However, it's another interesting thing to try. On what basis can they forbid you from recording the private pat-down? currently the TSA website states that all recording is fine except for security monitors.
Technically, they don't ban the recording of monitors. They just ask you not to..



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While TSA does not prohibit the public, passengers or press from photographing, videotaping, or filming at screening locations, TSA may ask a photographer to stop if they are interfering with the screening process or taking photos of X-ray monitor screens in a checkpoint.
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Old Nov 17, 10, 9:21 am   #8
  
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At least one poster in this forum has previously stated that airport bans on private (non-commercial) photography of publicly accessible spaces will stand only until challenged in court.
OTOH, private screening area might be defined as a not publicly accessible spot, so different rules may apply.
Re: recording monitors
That's interesting. "TSA will ask you to stop". I believe I was told that in LEO lingo "asking" means something else than "requesting". As in, the former is (at least in theory) something you might refuse without any negative consequences.
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Old Nov 17, 10, 9:27 am   #9
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Originally Posted by FriendlySkies View Post
Technically, they don't ban the recording of monitors. They just ask you not to..
Quote:
While TSA does not prohibit the public, passengers or press from photographing, videotaping, or filming at screening locations, TSA may ask a photographer to stop if they are interfering with the screening process or taking photos of X-ray monitor screens in a checkpoint.
which of course in at the TSO's discretion so in simple terms, you're screwed
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Old Nov 17, 10, 9:30 am   #10
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Originally Posted by bdschobel View Post
It seems to me that having cameras in the "private room" would at least partly defeat the purpose of going to the private room in the first place.

Bruce
Why? If a camera should be any place, it should be where passengers are alone with TSAers, with or without their own witness.

(Unless I misunderstood and we are talking about cameras owned by passengers.)
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Old Nov 17, 10, 9:40 am   #11
  
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Originally Posted by bdschobel View Post
It seems to me that having cameras in the "private room" would at least partly defeat the purpose of going to the private room in the first place.

Bruce
I would think the private room is to prevent other passengers from seeing the events. I'd still want there to be video evidence of any abuse from TSA.
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Old Nov 17, 10, 10:12 am   #12
  
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I would think the private room is to prevent other passengers from seeing the events. I'd still want there to be video evidence of any abuse from TSA.
If you have an Android-based phone there's a cool application for it that allows you to (at least) record the audio of what's happening in an unobtrusive manner that's impossible to detect even if TSA or local LEOs manage to want to play with your cell phone in the process. It's called Cop Recorder, and I've had it on my phone for several months now... When it starts recording there's really no way to tell that it's recording.

Prior to starting any screening process I start recording from the phone. If I'm verbally abused while going through the checkpoint I want to make sure that I have some record of it.

Now if they only made something that did the same thing in the same manner and included video... I'd love to just start the video recording and let it run undetected. It would be nice to be able to carry the phone through the WTMD on me as well, just to ensure that all confrontations are recorded. It would be nice to have something to show a jury in the (rather unlikely) event that I file a lawsuit against TSA (and specific TSOs) some day.
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Old Nov 17, 10, 10:29 am   #13
  
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Originally Posted by TamCaP View Post
Re: recording monitors
That's interesting. "TSA will ask you to stop". I believe I was told that in LEO lingo "asking" means something else than "requesting". As in, the former is (at least in theory) something you might refuse without any negative consequences.
What the monitors show is SSI. TSA personnel have a duty to protect SSI, which is why they will ask you to stop photographing the monitors.

However, the vast majority of passengers are not "covered persons" and, as such, have no duty to protect SSI. So there is no legal prohibition against non-"covered persons" from filming the monitors, provided they are in plain view and you are not interfering with the screening process. FYI, airline personnel are for the most part considered "covered persons."
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Old Nov 17, 10, 10:45 am   #14
  
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Originally Posted by clrankin View Post
If you have an Android-based phone there's a cool application for it that allows you to (at least) record the audio of what's happening in an unobtrusive manner that's impossible to detect even if TSA or local LEOs manage to want to play with your cell phone in the process. It's called Cop Recorder, and I've had it on my phone for several months now... When it starts recording there's really no way to tell that it's recording.

Prior to starting any screening process I start recording from the phone. If I'm verbally abused while going through the checkpoint I want to make sure that I have some record of it.

Now if they only made something that did the same thing in the same manner and included video... I'd love to just start the video recording and let it run undetected. It would be nice to be able to carry the phone through the WTMD on me as well, just to ensure that all confrontations are recorded. It would be nice to have something to show a jury in the (rather unlikely) event that I file a lawsuit against TSA (and specific TSOs) some day.
The BF and I both have iPhones and we plan to record anything that happens that we're uncomfortable with on our trip.
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Old Nov 17, 10, 11:24 am   #15
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Originally Posted by jesirose View Post
The BF and I both have iPhones and we plan to record anything that happens that we're uncomfortable with on our trip.
+1

With the iPhone, you can set the voice recording function, and then lock the phone.
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